But straight up what really gets me about religious people are these next few points:

1) sorry to rip on christianity here, and those christians I know among the paddling community are exceptions to this, but the tendency for Christians to evangelize an proselytize is a real bummer. Half the time all these foljs do is suceed in turning me off from their message.

2) it is a bummer that most religious people can't take a step towards common ground after you've clearly taken a step towards them. Sorry, but I find "God" in and on the river. Yet since most christians don't know the river, and since I don't go sit in their churches, they usually find a way to act all offended or uppity if I make any connection. But as cheesy as the whole "praise jesus" thing was in that freaky Blair-Witch-Project-style Sunset Falls video, in a way, I can see "God" in the works. But just as the notion of "God" being a "he" and essentially being a giant wearing a robe with a white beard is an absurd one, so is the idea that "he" needs to consciously intervene in order for "his" "miracle" to be felt, experienced, or known of. All such notions and words and imagery cheapens the whole Idea of "God" with a capital G. The whole pronoun thing is as absurd to me as Santa Clause or Cap'n Crunch.
The Tao that can be named is not the eternal Tao, and neither is Tao Berman, though he is definitely one of the best paddlers who has ever lived and a very dedicated and disciplined human. But I digress...

3) can't get into this discussion without picking on the Jews who defend the Jews in power who persecute another people much the same way they were themselves persecuted by the Germans. WTF? what good is their own religion if they overlook the badic fact that they are doing the same thing to the palestinians that Hitler did to them?

The bottom line is this: if yiur dogma is getting in the way of finding common ground and peace with other humans, something is obviously wrong.

i will say though that I've been inspired by people of all sorts of religious stripes who are very spirited, conscious people. Some of them frequent this site. Usually these folks tend to be of more modest means, and they are a bit more connected to the human condition as a result. Money and power skew all sorts of peeps' morals, and then, well, those are often the folks who give organized religion a bad rap.

Getting back to the Agnostic thing, yeah it may be a bit vaguely defined as far as a moral tether goes, but I guess I see a universality to different peeps' beliefs, and respect their right to make up their own minds. I just wish that was reciprocated more. Afterall, there's too many of us and we're gonna see different colored hats. Might as well coexist as peacefully as we can.

Just as I stated before that God isn't exclusive to morality.  I don't believe that religion is exclusive to spirituality.

Way to go everybody.  A civil and decent discussion.  The links are great and I like other people's perspectives!!  

I still think were getting off the better discussion here. Less philosophy and more meat and potatoes.

Nice one liner...

Who exactly did that on a thread labeled "debate" that prompted you to post that?

I feel that a lot of people that label themselves at "tolerant" are anything but...  I haven't seen a lot of tolerance to Christians in this discussion either.  The only reason I entered this discussion was because Christians were being singled out and put down.

Specifically:

This started because a group of Christians fell into a waterfall and were criticized for thanking God for their survival.

Jews were directly compared to Nazis.  (I know not "Christ"ians since they don't believe in Christ, but share the same old testament.)

I'd say those two are intolerant...

Oops, I'd also like to clarify the kind of Christians that most people "meet."

By this I meant that the ones I know (a large number) won't come knocking on your door, nor will conversion be brought up in normal conversation.

Proof: how many here would have guessed that I would have taken this stance from paddling with me?  How often do I mention God or Church in casual conversation?  There is no need, I don't judge anyone because of their faith.  There is a document that tells me not to do so... 

Again, it bothers me that so many people listen to the loudest and least informed members... of any group.

Luke 9:26

I would like to just say that I don't feel like christians are being slammed on. Does everyone agree with what I believe, no. Does everyone even believe the same thing? no. Do people think that what I believe is crazy, sure some, some might even laugh at it but that does not mean they are attacking or going after me. I think it is a good thing for people to be willing to discuss this stuff with an open mind and part of that means when folks disagree and when folks don't respond the way you want, you accept it and don't take it personally.

If you go through history you will find that most of the middle eastern conflict has very little to do with Religion and more to do with Relationships and Power. As moral codes decay you find these massive rifts open up between regions and people groups. Take the Ptolemies for example.

Main Entry: in·tol·er·ant
Pronunciation: \-rənt\
Function: adjective
Date: circa 1735
1 : unable or unwilling to endure
2 a : unwilling to grant equal freedom of expression especially in religious matters b : unwilling to grant or share social, political, or professional rights : bigoted
3 : exhibiting physiological intolerance <lactose intolerant>

I don't think intolerance is the right word. If anything the existence of this thread is in complete conflict with the word "intolerance".

I'm a liberal long haired hippie. If you think I haven't endured people or myself calling me silly you're out of your mind.
Intolerance is not finding something silly...

According to #1 it is...  Cause that is certainly not respect.

Sure there are levels of intolerance, I feel you are discrediting mild intolerance.  Yes there are levels and you haven't threatened anybody.  If the people in that video heard you call them "silly religious folks" I doubt they would feel much love from you...  I thought that was what the hippie movement was all about?