If you have more money than the city of Tacoma, you can have all the water you want.

Thanks for the explanation Slickhorn.

I had no idea that the FERC renewal was only 10 years ago. Pretty amazing that AW wasn't right on top of that. What was AW doing ten years ago, participating in the Nisqually La Grand Canyon flow studies?

I bet if the Green was on the east coast there would be at least some scheduled releases throughout the summer. I know that there is commercial rafting on the Green now.... but if there were releases all summer? It would be a top destination. I'd have to think that the local community would get behind that too, for the economic boost.

30 years huh, too bad!   Well, hopefully I'll still be cruising the rio then!

My guess is, AW was involved in FERC re-liscencing to the extent they were allowed to have a voice. The fact is, the Green has numerous major interests not found in most other watersheds that take precedent over kayaking. These interests include but are not limited to drinking water supply for a major city, the Endangered Species Act, tribal interests, and downstream flood management in an area with the densest population in the state.

I am kayak-first type of guy and a major believer in conservation, but I am also a realist. The Green is the most populous watershed in the state, and kayakers simply don't get much of a voice.

So my sense is that AW most likely did as best it could but did not really receive a seat at the table. I for one applaud AW's stewardship efforts, which vastly surpass other entities striving to protect our whitewater interests.

Har har har- I'd have thought that too if not for the intrigueing phoenomenon know as (not such) Intelligent Design. Local communities seem to overlook the opportunities to create their very own little tourist economies based on the influx of rafters.

And its sad- because I've seen plenty of places succeed at this: Mom n Pop businesses that sprout up and make a pleasant living for themselves. It could be lack of investment capital, or lack of imagination.

Whatever. Its fodder for another thread.

The Green? Damn all I gotta say is living so close to this dry river is killin me. But you know what? I don't have the time or the interest to figure out all these "HH complexities". There are hundreds of other runs in this state. And half the time when the Green does run, its in direct competition w/ something else that rarely runs.

'Bout over it

The Green is like that rad girl that isn't actively blowing you off- but still: she's never around. Never available.

Why bother?

I gotta move close to a different river.

alright alright alright... i have just been bummed that i have lived down here for almost 5 months and paradise has almost never been in

You're right, NVC, it is bullsh*t. But I solidly stand behind that bullsh*t. Slick's right: I'm just grouchy. A lot.

I do appreciate the Green, would love to boat it more, but its so complicated and this state is LITTERALLY TEEMING WITH WHITEWATER YEAR ROUND from the boarder to OR.

We tend to over inflate our perceptions based on what is important to us, but alas we are a small group (boaters).

And Washington's raft industry is all F'd up. Not sure why. We have occassional discussions about that too.

JP said, "...Washington's raft industry is all F'd up."

I think some reasons that WA has such hodge podge rafting is because:

On the West side of the mountains, the water/air temperature is predictably COLD as compared to the rafting opportunities in the East,not to mention overcast and rainy.

On the Ocoee in Tennessee, some of the coldest weather/water they raft in are not too much colder/nastier than nice summer days on the Sky. Most of Ocoee season, the air temps are in the upper 80's, 90's and even over 100. Good swimming weather, no? It can be a bit cold and rainy in March or October, but over all, it's friggen HOT in Tennessee. By the end of summer, the water is warm, like bath water.

It's COLD out here people. Really. It is. That is a huge limiting factor for a lot of people and therefore businesses.

Also, most of the dam release runs in the East are grouped up to where 1 company can easily run operations on 2 or more "dam release" rivers. Consistent flows are easier to manage than the big spring flows, such as are found on the Wenatchee or the big fluctuations as are found on the Sky and other non-dam release rivers. Ocoee is around 1200-1400cfs through most of it's season and only rarely gets too big for business(businesses have to get off the river if flows reach 3000cfs). These consistent flows makes it much easier to train guides and have a predictable experience for the customer.

Also, these grouped up runs are near huge population centers(multiple large cities). The Seattle area is pretty decent size, but, rafting businesses still have a relatively small group of potential customers, as compared to the East. The NorthWest is big, spread out and sparsely populated.

It should also be noted that being in the Bible Belt is a huge boon for rafting companies, who advertise heavily to churches and particularly youth groups. In the East, raft customers are probably 75 percent church youth groups. It's a huge, organized pool of people to tap into.

It should also be noted that the reason these dams release water in some cooperation with paddlers is all about capitalism, not .orgs. Hard dollars brought in by aspiring rafting businesses opened up there runs. Did any business entities attempt to get regular flows on the Green? Seems like a tough place to try to make money.

Also, I don't think the Green has the reservoir capacity to do a ton of releasing. There reservoirs look kind of smallish to me.

I'm pretty happy that the Green is a nice, quite undeveloped gorge, instead of a commercial amusement park such as the Ocoee, Nanty, Gauley etc...

There is a sh*t ton of water out here and I'm loving it, but... I'm not surprised at all that the rafting industry is a bit thin out here.

first, leme say that paradice is nice , but its got nothing on the Tilton playhole

Watch it Dr Pizzle,

Edited by jondufay - 25 Jan 2012 at 3:24pm