I got the broken link page. That's cool, I'm sure I'll bump into Hans soon enough- I'd like to get a copy if you can catch me when I got some money.

there's an extra space in the link.

Ive fixed the original post.

Edited by slickhorn - 03 Apr 2012 at 2:07pm

Just ordered my copy of the movie!   

It's as comprehensive a history as has ever been attempted.  And anyone who has tried to research first descents knows it can be really hard to get even names, let alone track down the actual first descenteers in person.

whatever it is, it looks like a great film, and one that acknowledges we all stand on the shoulders of the giants who preceeded us.  A welcome change from the usual "crank the hip hop gnar gnar gnar carnage gnar" edits we usually see.    

I apologize I just read my post and it was rude. I don't know what I was thinking but I don't want to edit it because that would be wrong too. So please forgive my sudden outburst. Just out of line... Except for the Netflix part, something about streaming river footage sounds cool.

Always weird online when someone knows you, and you don't know who they are.  Which of the many Wills are you? 

I didn't intend to be defensive, in fact I dialed it back quit a bit.  I just thought the post you made was rather harsh.  I mean, is it the perfect history movie?  prolly not, but unless you've made a better one, I haven't seen anyone else attempting to do the same kind of project.  If you were trying to ask questions, you missed that tone in your post, it reads more like an indictment of the film.  Apologies if I responded to the tone and not the content.  But ... we havn't seen the film, so none of us can answer.

I have long accepted that whitewater as an industry and a culture is dominated by hardshell kayaking.  The most uncool thing you can do is run an inflatable, or god forbid, row.  it's just not ever going to be cool in the same way.  And this film does seem to come more from the kayaking culture stand point than from the rafting culture stand point.  True rafting history would get into a lot more of this stuff you are talking about.  But kayak culture deifies the big vertical drop.  I thought Doug Ammon's take in AW a few years ago about where and what the edge of whitewater really is speaks to this.  And hey, oars are not the tool for dropping spirit falls.  so, yeah, kayakers making a rafting film is gonna focus on the kinds of water kayak culture values, and that's primarily gonna be water more suited to paddle rafting than rowing.

If anyone wants grassroots NW river history, go to Andy and Bax.  You'll see sh*t on their photo boards that'll blow you away.  gnarly as anything I've ever seen, anywhere.  more so, when you consider bucket boats, protec helmets, and wetsuits. 

Anyway, no harm or hostility meant Will.  I've always wanted to know more about the Robe photo in the bennett book too.  I understand one of the WIll's rowed the Truss too, I surely hope some of that footy is in the film.

If you think this is flaming, yer gonna hate this site!  haha 

I can't answer any of your questions directly.  Maybe Hans or Ryan will chime in with some answers.   I'd be interested to hear them too. 

peace.

This I like, well done. I often wished that I could have a Mt. Hardware Compressor made of Nomex... mine looks like a mesh tent from too many campfires.

Yea, my post was a bit to much, thus the quick apology, silly silly me.

I agree that the photo on Robe's page has many times set me in Awe, and helped soften a BM that might have taken 4 times longer to coax out. If you find my Bennett Book I would leave it alone...

I re-read your post again and I still say it comes across as pretty critical and I have nothing to do with the flick. I mean your suggesting the name is wrong, that they did not include the right amount of footage of certain things and then wondering if the title is misleading based on a short trailer.

One thing we can all agree on is that my post is the most rude one on the page so far... and for that I am deeply embarrassed. For so long I have worked to be the pinnacle of public positivity and in one fowl swoop I have lost everything... I feel like Jamie Dimon, Blythe Masters and Mary Schapiro all rolled into a Round of QEFree, pretty durn dirty.


Edited by James - 11 Apr 2012 at 12:01pm

Brian - Guess I should have hit "Refresh" before my most recent post.  I'm the guy two cubicles behind you (toothy grin).  Nah, I'm just an internet lurker that tends to run solo or in small groups.  Last name is Conley....I'm not very successful at staying web-dead, but I do aspire to something closer perhaps to web-comatose...tough to do when asking unpopular questions though, I guess.

The guy you're thinking of (boatman that rowed the Truss in a SB) is Will Volpert.  After paddle-boating the Truss about 7 or 8 years ago, I quickly concluded that while it was certainly possible possible to row most of it, that there were alot of other places I would prefer to apply the effort.  There's good reason that there was a 10+ year gap in between the first oared descent of the Truss and when the Beckers, Volpert, etc went in....the folks that have oared it have definitely earned it. 

"The most uncool thing you can do is run an inflatable, or god forbid, row.  it's just not ever going to be cool in the same way."

That's awesome and, never having been one of the cool kids, succinctly explains my gravitation to rowing.  While rowing is my preferred form of aquatic locomotion, exploration is my fundamental motivation, so I try to pick the right tool for the job be it cat, paddle-boat, or IK (a bad back and shoulders keep me out of hardshells though). 

I think your interpretation (paragraph 3) is generally accurate.  However, since I was intrigued by the historical nature of this particular effort, I was trying not to jump to the conclusion that "kayakers making a rafting film is gonna focus on the kinds of water kayak culture value".  so I figured I'd ask some questions (I didn't even realize that Hans kayaked...just thought he was a bad-azz paddle-boater).

I apologize if my original questions were too pointed or implied their own tone. As one that writes mostly technical language, I sometimes miss my own tone.  That said,

"we havn't seen the film, so none of us can answer." would have been a great original reply.  I don't keep up with release dates, screenings etc, but thought I'd seen reference to it being shown somewhere...my fault for not being more informed.  Between a full-time job, various volunteer activities, and a couple of kids, I can't keep up with all the hoopla.  Ah, who am I kidding....I can't blame that stuff, I didn't keep up even before any of that came along... 

Cheers,
Will C.

Ah, will conley.  Nice to (vitually) meet ya!  Loved that recent shot by Zach of you on the wind, superb! 

-b

This is not a response to any single post here, but a general statement of my impressions.

First, I would like to point out that my name is Tom Marley, just like my handle. Yes, I make an appearance in the movie. No, I have not seen it. I only know what I read on the website (the film's, not this flagrancy).

From the the film's website:

"Habitat - 35 years of whitewater rafting in the Pacific Northwest"

This does not in any way imply a complete history of all the people who ever stepped in an inflatable boat in BC, WA, ID, OR, noCal, whatever. It is a general statement, and the text continues to divulge details:

"This documentary takes you through the late 70's and early 80's with Shane Turnbull during his early years with commercial rafting and into the private boating scene. Pushing forward into the 90's with John Hall and AAA Rafting on the White Salmon River and David Sacquety's private boating exploits. In 2008 the raft racing events spawned a new rush in the whitewater world. From 2008 to 2010 rafters in the Pacific Northwest ventured beyond the guidebooks and explored uncharted territory for rafts."

This sounds like it is about a few people who pushed the limits of rafting in (mostly) WA, one of whom literally wrote the book on (mostly) WA. WA is 100% for sure in the PNW. If you think the tagline, which is well below the standard level of hype, is misleading, man have you been caved off from society!

It is not possible to encompass every group of rafters in the PNW from the past 35 years, and THIS IS NOT WHAT THE FILMMAKERS CLAIM TO HAVE DONE. It seems to me that they are trying to document at least some of the old-timers' stories and love of the sport. They can only interview people they know or have heard about. If anyone thinks that some people were "missed," then that person should document those people's histories remember before it's lost.

hans