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jon!
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  Quote jon! Replybullet Topic: Green River Alert!
    Posted: 06 Nov 2012 at 10:51pm


River wide tree just before entrance to pipeline rapid
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thad2000
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  Quote thad2000 Replybullet Posted: 07 Nov 2012 at 4:12am
This is on headworks.. Might be possible to go river left around island. :)
why not!
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tiziak
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  Quote tiziak Replybullet Posted: 07 Nov 2012 at 6:40am
Boof that thing!
If you don't know where you are going, any road will get you there.

Daniel Patrinellis
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  Quote chipmaney Replybullet Posted: 07 Nov 2012 at 9:13pm
Originally posted by slickhorn

Am I missing something?  Looks runnable?Left of the island is good to go, I run over there all there time.  Couple different channels, generally enough flow over 900 or so.



I think what you are missing is that this information is germane to Class III boaters....
sitting all alone on a mountain by a river that has no end
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  Quote thad2000 Replybullet Posted: 08 Nov 2012 at 4:20am
Love the use of germane.. :) I figure the run is one people might take first time people on... etc. So, it's good to be aware of hazards.. also, left of island was pretty scrappy.
Anyway, It's better safe than sorry. I'd much rather get a couple of jeers for being over cautious than feel bad about omitting info that might have helped some one. That's my two cents.
why not!
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jon!
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  Quote jon! Replybullet Posted: 08 Nov 2012 at 7:45am
I had to look up the meaning of germane. You are right but as a new boater I was taught to stay away from wood hazards because something evil is lurking waiting to cause a bad day.
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  Quote Mark47n Replybullet Posted: 08 Nov 2012 at 9:26am
looked at it yesterday.  lot's of branches sticking up, thought there is a spot that you could boof over.  Other side of the island isn't bad, it was runnable at around 700-800.

If i were to take new boaters down it, I would go around on the other side of the island.
You mean I'm supposed to wear something UNDER my spray skirt? Where's the fun in that?
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jP
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  Quote jP Replybullet Posted: 08 Nov 2012 at 2:46pm
Originally posted by chipmaney


I think what you are missing is that this information is germane to Class III boaters....


Well, I don't speak German. I'm 'Merican, Gotdamn it!

Actually, I agree with Chipper- it is a matter of relevance given the stretch it is reportedly on...

Which brings me to a little issue I got to now raise:

You said it is at a rapid called "Pipeline", then someone said it was on the Headworks stretch. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't there a rapid named Pipeline in the Upper Gorge, downstream on the same dammed river?

Dude, HOW the fu*k and WHEN the fu*k did we end up with two rapids with the same name on the same dammed river?!
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jP
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  Quote jP Replybullet Posted: 08 Nov 2012 at 2:52pm
Not that I blame any participants on this thread for this tragicly idiotic oversite by the paddling community as a whole. I mean, if having two rapids with the same name on the same dammed river doesn't create confusion well I don't know what does.

Seriously, its bad enough that Washington boaters have a woefully inadequate imagination when it comes to naming rapids. Its bad enough that we recycle the same ten names over and over
"Let's Make A Deal"
"The Flume"
"Double Drop"
Tryin to call any rapid with a row of rocks in it The Picket Fence n sh*t...

But this is way worse because I thought, and would have continued to think Jon was refering to the Upper Gorge rapid, had Thad not pointed it out.
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  Quote jP Replybullet Posted: 08 Nov 2012 at 3:05pm
And thanks for providing more detail, Slick-

But one of these dammed names got to go, and my guess is, sorry Headworks lovers-

The Upper Green's rapids are more defined, more established. Pipeline in the Upper Gorge was probably named WAY BEFORE the rapid on the Head Works stretch was thought to even deserve a name. If I got that backwards, well, somebody school me.

People are gonna shrug it off "there's jP making a big deal about nothing". But a user obviously thought posting this thread with a pic was important to "alert" people. That is part of what these forums are for, afterall. And, Jon! I want to emphasise that I applaud your effort to bring this to people's attention, because it is "germane".

My advice or gentle critique might be to add more info in the thread title next time citing the name of the stretch, and doing so again in your post. There are four guidebook stretches on the Green.

But a more important issue is:
Who is leading beginners out on the Headworks and telling them "this rapid is called Pipeline". There is the real source of confusion.
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jP
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  Quote jP Replybullet Posted: 08 Nov 2012 at 3:24pm
Haha!! No, Slick--

We need an emoticon reading:

THIS THREAD IS WORTHLESS WITHOUT TEXT, or um...
Some detail beyond a picture and a blurb saying its on a river that aparently has two rapids with the same name.

I mean, stop and consider WHY we name rapids.
Pillow Rock- named because of an identifiable, obvious landmark
BOB's Falls- named because Bob got trashed there. A warning so hopefully it won't happen to you.
Rodeo Hole- the go-to play spot
Sweet's Falls- John Sweet ran it first (I knew him as a kid)
Meatlocker- well, this was named after I was there and took the sneak line around it. Not sure why it got named this, but it does a good job of inspiring me NOT to run it.

The point is, names of rapids serve a purpose. When and where possible they should quickly illuminate and provide beta about themselves encapsulated in their namesake.

Hot Pocket. A great name to a feature in Lunch Hole rapid (in itself a well named rapid for multiple reasons). And Hot Pocket was tacked on much later, but its relevence is twice served: not only does it cleverly describe a play feature, it fits the theme of the rapid it resides in. The namer of this feature deserves a gold star for employing his imagination. Well named rapids and features are more easily remembered because of their cleverness. Like a band name, a brand name, ect.

Now, its been a long time since I ran headworks. Maybe the name of the rapid in question makes sense on the face of it, but obviously a whole group of paddlers are guilty of some oversite here by choosing a name already being used downstream, assuming the Uppe Gorge rapid was named first (I don't know for sure this is the case, but it is almost certain and most likely).


Edited by jP - 08 Nov 2012 at 3:26pm
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  Quote James Replybullet Posted: 08 Nov 2012 at 3:24pm
The fact that you did not include S-Turn in your list makes me wonder if perhaps that name should be used more often, I mean I think every run should at least have one!
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  Quote Mark47n Replybullet Posted: 08 Nov 2012 at 3:25pm
This isn't really a rapid.  It's just a messy eddy that now has a tree coming across the top of it...all the way across the river.  It does have the pipeline running over it on a bridge, however and is located upstream of the powder room.
You mean I'm supposed to wear something UNDER my spray skirt? Where's the fun in that?
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  Quote jP Replybullet Posted: 08 Nov 2012 at 3:36pm
Dam it, James, I didn't have TIME to list them all! I had an outpouring of Melleville scale thoughts to get out
But, is ONE S-Turn enough per run? Cuz damn (don't dam the Ici): Icicle has a lot of unnamed stretches. And a boater is pretty much S-Turnin down the whole damn thing!



Yeah, Mark (thanks for your input BTW), I realize that, as well as the fact that I appear to be blowing this out of proportion.

As with a lot of similar topics, I chose to use this one as a platform to discuss some related concepts relevant to the thread. In this case, COMMUNICATION. How we use these forums to alert each other of hazards, and the names we use, why we use them, and why we need to think a little about them. If there was only one whitewater paddler on the planet, there would be no point in naming rapids. They exist solely for us to utilize in our communications, and therefore should not be misleading, or vague.

Plus, naming a rapid with a cool catchy name is fun!

Edited by jP - 08 Nov 2012 at 3:48pm
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jP
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  Quote jP Replybullet Posted: 08 Nov 2012 at 3:44pm
Originally posted by slickhorn

dafuq is the powder room?   I ain't never heard ANY of these names before....Proud to help the OT drift ... ;)



I know, I think I been guilty of taking things off topic a bit lately.

Whether we know every name every boater comes up with isn't important. Never Heard of the Powder Room, either, but go to the Rivers Page for Headworks and it IS listed. That brought a smile of satisfaction to me when I just went n checked.

Rest assured: if we need to know the name, we've probably heard of it. Boulder Drop, The Wall (a.k.a. Quarter Mile), Lava Dam Falls, ect.
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  Quote jP Replybullet Posted: 08 Nov 2012 at 3:49pm
Are we up to a two pager yet?
Talk about the Tower of Babel...
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  Quote James Replybullet Posted: 08 Nov 2012 at 3:53pm
No doubt.. but I can dig being behind a keyboard since I got my double day on Clearwater this weekend!!! Mmm
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  Quote not-very-clever Replybullet Posted: 08 Nov 2012 at 3:53pm
yeah james, i agree, we need more s-turns. 

we also need more of the follow:

The needle

house rocks

island drop

ledge drop

entrance exam

landslide

last call

we definitely need a lot more:  canyon creeks



wooooooo that was a lot of brainstorming


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jP
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  Quote jP Replybullet Posted: 08 Nov 2012 at 6:08pm
Dude! I ran 15 mi. Creek!! (Flows into the Columbia near The Dalles) A novelty run for sure, but just one of thode Bennie Book Classics I had to check out. Ran it w/ Tom, Kira, and Hans two winters ago.

It has a few interesting drops in it fo sure.

And some wierd farmer/rancher stuff in the river, some barbed wire, and a stinky efluent w/ mysterious foam, but hey...



Edited by jP - 08 Nov 2012 at 6:11pm
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  Quote Mr.Grinch Replybullet Posted: 08 Nov 2012 at 10:01pm
In other Green news..... The Lower Gorge is free o wood (@ 1k cfs, at least).
nnln.
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  Quote jon! Replybullet Posted: 09 Nov 2012 at 6:29pm
It is more than possible that I just messed up the description due to ignorence...and alcohol. This horse is more than dead but I hope everyone now knows there is a tree across the river on Headworks. It's up to you to boof or portage.How cool is it to make a post and get jP to comment?
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  Quote jon! Replybullet Posted: 09 Nov 2012 at 6:35pm
I meant ignorance
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  Quote the_NW Replybullet Posted: 12 Nov 2012 at 8:42am
what is the current flow on this section, hasn't been updated in awhile anyone know?
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  Quote Brmarkey Replybullet Posted: 12 Nov 2012 at 9:10am
Non of the guages have been updated since Yesterday. Whats the deal? Im sure the green has come up in the last 8h. It was pouring out this way all last night.
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  Quote Dale Replybullet Posted: 12 Nov 2012 at 10:25am
This is the gauge I use for the Green... http://waterdata.usgs.gov/usa/nwis/uv?12106700 and this is the forecast gauge that will give you an idea of what they may or may not release whenever... http://www.nwrfc.noaa.gov/river/station/flowplot/flowplot.cgi?id=HHDW1
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