The other day I was paddling and had a really bad pin. Luckily I was with some very good kayakers who are on it and very quick at getting out of there boat and got to me very quickly. I guess Ive been thinking about it and wanted to just talk about it for the purpose of education because I relearned some stuff that day and am rethinking and now changing how I look at rescues and what I bring on the river.

That sounds like a close call. Glad it turned out OK.

Some pretty good thoughts there.

There's a classic exercise to simulate a pin on dry land to try to help people understand how difficult it can be to exit a pinned boat. Have a couple strong friends ready to help.

Tie a boat to a tree or something such that the bow is down and the stern is up. Not too vertical at first. Maybe 45 degrees, then more and more vertical later. Climb in the boat(a chair helps) and get settled in the seat, then try to climb out of the boat. try to climb out of the boat with just one hand(in case the other is busy, damaged or otherwise unavailable). Then try it with out any hands. Then try it such that you have to crawl out through your skirt tunnel(simulating a pin that pinches the skirt and won't allow the skirt to release from the cockpit).

Don't take this exercise lightly, as, I've seen people get hurt and I've seen people that just plain couldn't get out of a vertical. A couple strong people spotting is a good idea.

Though it's not as fun as it is in the water, you can simulate a lot of rescue scenarios on dry land, including recreating Totten's situation.

Haha... Yeah Pete I think the salamander visor would have given me super hero powers ! Did the river rip that thing off yet ??

No really it wasn't that bad it was no where near a close call it was just a really sh*ty pin where I needed help and luckily Darren and Ben were really fast and the conditions were right .. More it made me think of what if that same solid crew couldn't get to me or I was the one on shore with a bag watching helplessly as my best friend was pinned without communication maybe ?   If both rescuer and victim have the same back up plan and gear everytime your outcome will improve a lot.

Timeliness in a rescue situation is everything, so is staying calm so you can problem solve.

If you decide to pull your skirt, be sure you took the time to determine that your escape can be executed before the cockpit fills up and potentially fu*ks you.

As far as ropes go, I view them as a last resort to only be used when absolutely necessary. People go get swift water rescue training, and its good skills to know, but many people are too quick to deploy ropes when they are simply not needed. Every circumstance has its unique variables and some common variables. Quickly identifying each is key, since a rope can really bite you in the ass huge-- remember that "Fish On" (or should I say "Mikey On") scenario on the Green that time, Fluid? (Going into Lets Make A Deal at 3500 or whatever it was running). Not trying to focus on that specific case right now.

I have steered clear of all the various permutations of the throw bag in favor of the classic throw bag design, which I religiously carry between my legs so I can litterally leap from my boat with it in hand. Never trusted those square shaped ones design to fit in PFD pocket, but maybe they are fine. I have been curious about the belt style throw bag- plenty of boaters I respect swear by them. My concern has always been having that extra bulk around my waist. What are everyone's thoughts on that?

Edited by jP - 28 Aug 2013 at 1:26pm

I used to have the throw bag on my back, and switched to the chest pocket throw bag a few years ago. For kayaking I like the chest pocket because it is easier to get to in a hurry. For IKing or rafting I like the rear bag because it does not get in the way as I try pulling myself back in a boat. Different priorities for different boats.

I agree rope in the river is a bad idea and I've seen it go wrong more than once. However , the chef knife is dangerous and will cut you but happens to be the best tool in the kitchen for the job.. We're definetly talking about last ditch efforts here and I believe having a rope on your person , out side your spray skirt is key. Whether it be a pocket rope ,waist rope, 10' , 30' ... The point is in a pin or rescue that has potential to get really bad your giving your rescuers an attachment point to YOU which is 90 % of the battle on most rescues by clipping to your self and sending the bag down stream if you can. Most often the battle is - How do I get to and clip into this pinned victim with a big river or creek around me and them and not put myself in danger as well ? And if you combine having a light weight snag it plate in your throw bag you could pull off a rescue like this if both rescuer and victim had the same knowledge, training, gear. This is where Darren's idea which I like of RPDM takes in the training and group team dynamics The idea that the more we share, train together, experience, and standardize a basic philosophy the more predictable outcomes become given an unpradictable situation. its done in the ER and Fire all the time. It's kind of the 10,000 hour rule except you can't train for pins, well because they suck and they really don't happen often which is why most of our training for it is through stories and talking about what if's and other people's unfortunate mistakes.

As far as comfort I'm a huge minimalist and don't like added bulk however I think it's a no brainer that having a little rope on your person is handy in lots of ways. Maybe you swim and your ropes in your boat and you portage down river and you need a little rope to rap (10' not far but tall enough to get hurt) down a little walled out area to get back to river level where your boat eddied out? In the canyons we paddle this happens...

I'm not trying to sell a standard I'm just sharing my new thoughts on having a bag above your skirt on your person in conjunction with a snag plate rescue. It should be the last thing to deploy, however I do think it could save your life one day? And just because you don't run class V don't think that most pins are in class IV and low water class V. My worst pins to date were all low water mank. Not that it's not fun it's just interesting that the biggest rapids I've run with lots of water were in ways safer than trying to get down a class v creek at low water. I'm not advocating high water missions but I do believe a healthy padded medium is always the safest flow to run any river for most folks. Well within its river bed and filled in. Which is a whole nother topic on its own.

Edited by FLUID - 29 Aug 2013 at 1:14am

Practice, practice, practice boys and girls.

Thanks boys !! All good points. And Dan your right Its all about who you boat with and having good people around. I used to teach rescue with Sam Drevo and well know Chris in index well and her reputation and she is really really really good at what she does . But all the people in the world with 100' of rope still takes time to set up these things in a rapidly shifting situation. Further more most " rescue courses " are taught in ideal conditions where you can get back up stream and your not all cliffed out. The point is valid. Think about the boof. You can train real time with your boof and feel results same with your bow draw and C- stroke you can train to have muscle memory kayaking but real pins are scary and they happen quick. I don't care how many boats you jump in and out of on land or the two feet of water pin on some rescue scenario on the sky. when the real one comes and your sinking knowing your about to go underwater your panic for a plan to unfold is urgent . I get all the rescue rope technique and think there valid mostly for recovery when its too late but they still take time and people to set up. Remember rescue is an evolving field and chipper your totally right taking a class and being aware is the key. You can train for boofing and you can train for how to use rope in different ways but I guess the real pins that are bad as you a kayaker are unrepeatable and otherwise you would have never been in that situation because you never wanted to be there in the first place. I can't tell you how many boats I've climbed into in the water pretending im pinned and drowning freezing my ass off waiting for students to figure out some way to reach me and stabilize me doesn't prepare you for what to do when it's a really fu*ked up pin and time is crucial and is real. These are all what if's but I stand by my statement . Why couldn't they get to the kern brother , or my buddy mike or the 100s of other people who have had hours and hours of river time and rescue training And couldnt get to there buddy. Because sometimes the conditions don't allow for perfect scenarios. Its not like learning math where you have a predicted answer every time rescue courses are about teaching skill with a whole lot of judgment which is hard to teach as well. Even the most advanced rescues courses are all high angle rope scenarios which are worthless unless your doing a body recovery. It's just reality .

To put it into perspective .. My dear friend mike Stano pinned and died on the green. He was pinned under two feet of water and know one could have gotten to him. Best case is he could have clipped a bag to himself and let it float out down stream for someone to grab however the water pressure it might have been possible to do. Even when search and rescue was there it took hours and hours of planning and setting up to get him out. I only bring this up because if mike would have deployed a bag even though it was to late someone might have been able to snag that rope and got it back up stream for a tug.

I think in general your right chipper I need another refresher and want to do more rescue stuff each year but I just realized rescue courses focus more on the rescue than .. Hey I'm pinned . fu*k !! How can I help them rescue me .. Think about it ?? this system is a lot quicker than getting ropes across the river or even one side of the river or one man rescue which is only possible in perfect situations and limited. in a really bad pin you might not even be able to get your rope clipped to yourself because of water pressure in my scenario but were just talking it out but rescue is mostly theory anyway ?? I agree you can train as a rescuer with throwing some rope but it still unfolds different every time and its hard to train to be a victim and that's my point here. I just think its fun to talk about because this is a form of rescue training just is going back and forth and thinking of ideas .. It's good . Keep it coming . And I love and trust the peeps I paddle with and know they would do everything possible for me but sometimes it's limited and realize as a pinned kayaker I can help in my own rescue by being prepared with the right tools and knowledge .


Edited by FLUID - 29 Aug 2013 at 1:52pm

No I agree with Dan, and from Darren and am with the philosophy that getting a rope to someone as quick as possible for peace of mind and clipping in incase the pin gets worse...

Alright, good talk.. Now lets go boating !! Have fun on the NF this weekend boys !!

Edited by FLUID - 30 Aug 2013 at 3:33am