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kuhdn
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  Quote kuhdn Replybullet Topic: Wood/boat on the Foss
    Posted: 19 Apr 2014 at 10:56pm
Hey all,

I just wanted to get the word out that there is a piece of wood on the left side of the rapid just below Ken and Barbie on Foss Creek.

It was underwater at today's levels, but it managed to pin a paddler in my group for 20 minutes. We got him out alright and he has a clean bill of health less a few bruises.

The boat is unfortunately still there. PLEASE be super cautious going to run the Foss right now.

I have photos of it's location if you are interested i can get them to you, i just can't get them to upload here.

Be safe out there,

Devin
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  Quote LisaF Replybullet Posted: 21 Apr 2014 at 11:17am
Is that the same place as the pile of wood about 3-4 years ago?
Glad everyone's okay. Sounds scary.
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kuhdn
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  Quote kuhdn Replybullet Posted: 21 Apr 2014 at 11:45am
We were able to get the boat out yesterday evening. The log is still there and just barely visible at the current flows.

Remain vigiliant out there.

Devin
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  Quote thalwegbc Replybullet Posted: 16 Jun 2014 at 4:45am
I think it is the same one as described above, it is in the rapid below a fun one with a chute that splits in two and rejoins in a couple wave holes at the bottom. I got stuck partially submerged with this log entering my cockpit, getting trapped by the skirt rubber rand, and pinning my legs in for almost two hours yesterday. There is more wood under the problem piece, which is pointing upstream towards river right. It took 6 people, 5 throw bags, and two Z drags to get me out with just bruises and really cold. There is still one rope in there somewhere, probably in the underwater logs, but possibly downstream, sorry about that, couldn't see it anywhere.

Trust me this log sucks. Be careful.

Edited by thalwegbc - 16 Jun 2014 at 4:49am
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  Quote NateW Replybullet Posted: 16 Jun 2014 at 8:14am
Wow that's super scary.
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  Quote chipmaney Replybullet Posted: 16 Jun 2014 at 8:25am
glad to hear of this safe resolution to a very scary situation.
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  Quote ChristianKnight Replybullet Posted: 16 Jun 2014 at 9:10am
Two hours!
Catch your eddies,
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  Quote JoesKayak Replybullet Posted: 16 Jun 2014 at 10:23am
Glad to hear you made it out safe. That's a long time to be pinned! Good job keeping your cool through a nasty situation and big kudos to your paddle partners for getting you out.
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  Quote irenen Replybullet Posted: 16 Jun 2014 at 10:51am
Very glad everyone made it out OK, that is some serious stuff.

That spot sounds like the same spot where I got snagged underwater mid-roll - or mid-roll attempt, anyway ;) - by the jaw piece of my full face helmet 2 years ago (not recommended) and where I think someone else might have gotten snagged on their life jacket like a year later.  Not saying it's the same wood, just that maybe it's a spot that tends to collect problem wood and even when there's nothing visible or a huge pin hazard like there currently is, it may be a more dangerous area than it seems.
It's all fun and games until someone loses a paddle.
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  Quote JayB Replybullet Posted: 16 Jun 2014 at 1:09pm
Wow - two pins in the same spot in the same weekend? Scary stuff. So glad everyone came out of those situations alive!

Let's get the river-alerts updates for the Foss pronto, ditto for AW. Would someone directly involved in either of the incidents bet willing to post a river-alert? I tried to post a quick heads up on the AW page but couldn't get past the membership-verification process. Hopefully someone with up-to-date credentials can at least cross-post a reference to the river-alert that gets posted here.

-Jay
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Annie
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  Quote Annie Replybullet Posted: 16 Jun 2014 at 2:10pm
on the same day! ...to add to the seriousness of this piece of wood.., I was part of this group of 7 on Sunday and was 4th to go down. First 3 were safely at the bottom unaware of how close they were from it. My life jacket got snagged in front of my left shoulder, hard enough I thought it poked a hole in my drysuit and I was momentarily stuck for a good 3-4 seconds, but luckily was able to quickly free myself of it and yelled at the guys at the bottom to signal stopped as I made it to the eddy and told them about the wood... but seems like everyone had started down and it was signaled to them to go right... 2 made it down ok between me and the serious pin. Very scary!

It is extremely difficult to see unless you know about it. No one saw it on the way down and I don't think you'd notice it on a scout. It's kinda under water in front of a pore over, so you just end up deep enough going trough there. Very dangerous spot! The water level was low for that run.


Edited by Annie - 16 Jun 2014 at 2:12pm
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water wacko
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  Quote water wacko Replybullet Posted: 16 Jun 2014 at 4:51pm
I think it's in Barbie's boulder fence. I've heard of a piece in the center of the boulder fence, too. Might be worth a look next time.
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  Quote WhiteWaterWheat Replybullet Posted: 17 Jun 2014 at 9:42am
thalwegbc, do you have a photo of the pin spot? Just curious if it is the same log I got stuck on last year. Bottom left side of Ken and Barbie. It grabbed my life jacket and my boat kept going down stream. I was an ornament decorating the log for about 45 seconds. Turned out okay for me (except loss of boat of course).

The Foss can be such a fun little section of river. I have had many great runs. But I've also seen some gnarly situations. Definitely has some consequences for missed lines and rolls.

Glad everyone is okay! I can't imagine being pinned for 2 hours. Good job keeping it together and your crew for getting you out!

Edited by WhiteWaterWheat - 17 Jun 2014 at 9:46am
You only get the chance to run a drop blind once.
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  Quote PowWrangler Replybullet Posted: 17 Jun 2014 at 10:59am
Were most of these pins at low water?  The Foss has some unfriendly spots when it's low.  Medium and above is best.
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  Quote JayB Replybullet Posted: 17 Jun 2014 at 12:38pm
Kudos to Joe for updating the river alert for this run!
-Jay
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jP
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  Quote jP Replybullet Posted: 17 Jun 2014 at 10:28pm

"Two Hours!!" wow- just to echo everyone else, I'm glad you are ok. Glad cool heads prevailed and this is definitely a testament for having current swiftwater rescue skills and having the gear to pull it off. The two hour predicament illustrates just how difficult it is to implement in a real scenario in a rwsl spot likely enough to have such a hazard in the first place. Dude, I'm glad your people had you covered, and glad you were enough of a trooper to withstand the ordeal.

Originally posted by irenen

sounds like the same spot where I got snagged underwater mid-roll - or mid-roll attempt, anyway ;) - by the jaw piece of my full face helmet 2 years ago...  Not saying it's the same wood, just that maybe it's a spot that tends to collect problem wood and even when there's nothing visible or a huge pin hazard like there currently is, it may be a more dangerous area than it seems.



Originally posted by water wacko

I think it's in Barbie's boulder fence. I've heard of a piece in the center of the boulder fence, too. Might be worth a look next time.


Well, Irene's comment is an important one to heed on this thread: that zone is inherently prone to collecting wood. Lots of rivers and runs have a single spot or two that will consistently act as a wood catcher. Barbie it seems, tends to attract Gnarly Wood, however infrequently. For awhile I've considered it generally cleaner than other times I recall. But I bet I've seen perhaps 6 different iterations of wood either at or below Barbies Boney Boulder Fence. Some to lesser or greater extents "in play".



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  Quote jP Replybullet Posted: 17 Jun 2014 at 10:57pm
Originally posted by PowWrangler

Were most of these pins at low water?  The Foss has some unfriendly spots when it's low.  Medium and above is best.


PowWrangler touched on a good point about the Foss that is relevant despite whether it pertains to the wood hazard spoken of or not.

So, please forgive me in advance here. I'm about to be very assertive and opinionated about something regarding The Foss, Peshastin, Ingalls, and other creek runs of their ilk:

The Foss and creeks like it do not boat clean at all at "Low" flows. The Sky and White Salmon boat super clean low. Hell, so does the Cooper, Top Tye (somewhat) ect. But the Foss and other "small agragate" continuous runs get more hazardous at lower flows.

That's not "jP's opinion", who cares what that dude thinks? That's geology and fluvial geomorphology. So don't take my word for it, Listen to these creeks' geology. It will speak to you if you are willing to listen. It kinda sounds like the scaping and scratching sound of plastic on rock. Just remember that all of those plastic shavings we never think about and leave behind undertake a long journey between those not-really-so-sick scratchy boofs and their eventual destination right up in your grand daughter's food chain. Do you want your grand children eating the plastic shavings from your kayak? Wow ok way off topic never shoulda taken that last bong toke.

Naw...
The Foss is the kind of run you need to fill in with water. That way you have freedom of choice picking your lines. More distance between you and that wood. In fact, often if you got proper flows most of the wood will be under water or low enough to get over, ect. Sorry- bullsh*t generalities there.

Still, Bone Zone Barbie? I thought "Barbie" was 'sposed to be a Bombshell Knockout Drop Dead Gorgeous Blond (I know, I know, and an intelligent independent woman who is an upper exec at the Starbucks Corporation.) But running the Foss when the Sky is in the 5,500-6,000 range? Sounds WAY WAY WAY low. So now we're talking about the kind of Barbie who instead turned to Crystal Meth, lost her entry level Starbucks cashier job down at the Woodland Safeway, and is now anorexic, scabbed up and missing half her teeth. There she goes- just saw here walkin down the side walk of Croft Street in Gbar...

Foss needs a certain amount of "baby fat" at the very least. Otherwise in these disorganised rock gardens the water gets too difuse. Or what consolidated channels remain lead directly towards the same spots wood collects at the higher flows, but now with the egress dried up and therefore shunted off.

Not tying this detail into your situation or incident, just agreeing that the Foss and creeks of its character produce an over abundance of pin potential at low flows. These new creek boats all crave higher cfs brackets. Embrace the beauty. Pump up the volume.


Edited by jP - 17 Jun 2014 at 11:02pm
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  Quote PowWrangler Replybullet Posted: 17 Jun 2014 at 11:50pm
Great analysis JP.  Loved the analogies, very vivid.  
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  Quote chipmaney Replybullet Posted: 18 Jun 2014 at 11:08am
Creeks like the Foss and Ingalls, what JP called "small aggregate" creeks, fall into an interesting geomorphologic category. Ranging from about 4-7% slopes, these rivers are too steep for pool-riffles morphology (2-4% slope) to form but not steep enough for cascades (>7% slope). They tend to be characterized by a very uniform channel with smooth longitudinal streambed profile (ie, no pools), technically referred to as a plane-bed stream morphology. The only way to form pools in these stream is through wood scouring. So JP is correct, the watershed conditions, primarily the slope, motivate the morphologic character of these streams, making them very continuous and manky (no sediment sorting). The water in these types of creeks, including in areas where they steepen into cascades, is very turbulent, and there is low predictability in the flow direction at any one location. Flow in pool-riffle (sky) and steep bedrock streams (cooper) tend to be more channelized and moving downstream more uniformly (as opoposed to sideways). I love the Foss, but yeah, I don't get on it below medium+, mostly because I don't like denting my boat.
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  Quote JayB Replybullet Posted: 18 Jun 2014 at 2:06pm
-Can anyone involved in the accidents comment on whether or not the logs would be "in-play" or not at higher flows? I don't think I'll be in there myself anytime soon, but that sort of information could be valuable to others.

-As far as flows and hazards are concerned, I think it's undeniable that continuous gradient runs will boat cleaner and have fewer pin-hazards at higher water, but pinning isn't the only hazard you have to think about on continuous gradient creeks.

My experience is way more limited, but good old-fashioned wood-hazards have also been a staple of the few continuous gradient runs that I've done, and when the velocity increases and the few eddies that exist at lower flows start to disappear, and the hazard that "in-play" wood that's at or above the waterline becomes more significant once the flow starts to pick up.

I personally find continuous gradient creeks to be way more serious and committing (and nerve wracking) than most pool-drop runs of the same grade, and consequently focus on scouting, spacing, and group dynamics with a higher level of intensity on those runs, and generally try to stick to stuff that's comfortably below my top-end grade so that I have some margin to play with if something unexpected happens.

That might be obvious to most people, but I have to confess that I was fairly oblivious to the differences between running pool-drop runs and continuous gradient runs when I was starting out.

Anyone running the Foss has probably already earned their stripes elsewhere and already understands that better than I do, but it's something that I try to pass along to newer folks who might be firing up a continuous gradient run for the first time.



Edited by JayB - 18 Jun 2014 at 2:07pm
-Jay
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Annie
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  Quote Annie Replybullet Posted: 19 Jun 2014 at 6:35pm
I think the logs that caused the pin would definitely still be in play at higher flows, it would only be harder to see and harder to perform a rescue and might not leave an air pocket to a victim... The river was on the low side, but it didn't feel particularly low in that exact spot, nor did it feel too low on the steeper gradient... Actually we were very pleased with the level as none of us knew the run and the lower water allowed us to catch lots of eddies to look for hazards, especially wood! It allowed us time to stop between drops which would have been difficult at a higher flow due to the continious nature of the run. We thought it was an ideal first time level to see what the run is all about.
 
 
After the pin, 4 hiked out and 3 of us continued down to look for the lost paddle and get to the downstream car. I can say that after the steeper section ended and the gradient was more mellow, the river was wider, then yes it was too low and I would definitely want more water to run the Foss. But the water level wasn't a factor on that pin, as the log sticking up is hidden by a pore over and sorta under water, but when you paddle trough, it can stick up as high as your lifejacket shoulder or the cockpit of your boat... I think it's more in the angle you approach it, but if you don't get snag, you probably won't even know it's there! Like I said no one that didn't snag or pin saw the log on their way down even when paddling right next to it.
 
Here is a blog post about the incident with some of the pictures I took near the very end... when we got all excited about the victim freeing up one of his leg and sitting up... http://gradientstormchasers.blogspot.ca/2014/06/a-two-hour-pin.html .
(Note that there is a mistake about the first person (denny) going down noticing the log, nobody noticed the log, even when I snagged my lifejacket, I had to tell them that it happenned... but yes they noticed a 3-4 seconds delay of me not going downstream, but not the log... I also asked the 2 persons between me and the pin victim if they noticed it and they did not... but one said she was wondering why I wasn't coming trough)
 


Edited by Annie - 19 Jun 2014 at 6:51pm
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  Quote H2Ohta Replybullet Posted: 19 Jun 2014 at 8:23pm
Wow, sounds like great work by the entire team!!! 2 hours is such a long time and it sounds like you all executed a difficult rescue in a very professional manner. Well done!!!
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  Quote JayB Replybullet Posted: 20 Jun 2014 at 10:39am
Originally posted by Annie











I think the logs that caused the pin would definitely still be in play at higher flows, it would only be harder to see and harder to perform a rescue and might not leave an air pocket to a victim... The river was on the low side, but it didn't feel particularly low in that exact spot, nor did it feel too low on the steeper gradient... Actually we were very pleased with the level as none of us knew the run and the lower water allowed us to catch lots of eddies to look for hazards, especially wood! It allowed us time to stop between drops which would have been difficult at a higher flow due to the continious nature of the run. We thought it was an ideal first time level to see what the run is all about.
 
 
After the pin, 4 hiked out and 3 of us continued down to look for the lost paddle and get to the downstream car. I can say that after the steeper section ended and the gradient was more mellow, the river was wider, then yes it was too low and I would definitely want more water to run the Foss. But the water level wasn't a factor on that pin, as the log sticking up is hidden by a pore over and sorta under water, but when you paddle trough, it can stick up as high as your lifejacket shoulder or the cockpit of your boat... I think it's more in the angle you approach it, but if you don't get snag, you probably won't even know it's there! Like I said no one that didn't snag or pin saw the log on their way down even when paddling right next to it.
 
Here is a blog post about the incident with some of the pictures I took near the very end... when we got all excited about the victim freeing up one of his leg and sitting up... http://gradientstormchasers.blogspot.ca/2014/06/a-two-hour-pin.html .
(Note that there is a mistake about the first person (denny) going down noticing the log, nobody noticed the log, even when I snagged my lifejacket, I had to tell them that it happenned... but yes they noticed a 3-4 seconds delay of me not going downstream, but not the log... I also asked the 2 persons between me and the pin victim if they noticed it and they did not... but one said she was wondering why I wasn't coming trough)
 










Thanks for taking the time to write up your account of the pin and share it. Very valuable information that everyone can learn something from.
-Jay
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thalwegbc
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  Quote thalwegbc Replybullet Posted: 06 Jul 2014 at 1:01pm
Might as well post in here too that I am still looking for my paddle. 197 powerhouse 15d feather. Thanks, Scott
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  Quote huckin harms Replybullet Posted: 16 Oct 2014 at 8:46am
So that malicious chunk of wood has been removed.... I'll try and post a pic. The 1/4mile stretch above and below K&B are clean, but as always treat this run with suspicion as the fall winds and winter snow drop sh*t.

so I dunno how to add pic to this thread but there is a pic uploaded to gallery... it shows just what you might expect to see... a piece of wood horizontal to flow and lifted slightly off a flat rock with another wedge wood that created the pinning/sieve like feature.

Edited by huckin harms - 16 Oct 2014 at 8:55am
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