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mikenash
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  Quote mikenash Replybullet Topic: Dropping in on someone getting a hole ride
    Posted: 09 Dec 2014 at 9:00am
Sometimes, usually from following too close you find yourself dropping in on someone getting a hole ride. Happened to me last wknd. I dropped in side ways not wanting to take Sams head off with my bow. This pushed him up the foam pile a bit leaving me in the pit. I leaned downstream grabbed his boat pushed it up and over the pile, then hung on and it pulled me out. I didnt plan this but it worked sweet and reduces the risk of injury. Even if the person in the hole is upside down they should still be able to roll up as they will be sweeping/bracing downstream and from the upstream position you can help them.
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jP
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  Quote jP Replybullet Posted: 10 Dec 2014 at 2:52pm
Good input. And collisions will inevitably occur.

But better, further reaching wisdom is for each and every paddler to cultivate some ettiquette regarding spacing. I am lucky my whole face didn't explode like sam's did back in the late 90's while five of us were surfing alongside each other on a five boat wave. The Jack ass who hit me lost control of his boat and it charc'ed over toward me at a very high rate of speed and the bow (He was paddling a Mongoose, I think) was blunt enough to knock me hard in the cheekbone. Nothing broken, but based on how I felt I am surprised. Bruised up pretty good.

Seriously, boaters simply follow too close most of the time. Another time I was the offender, dropping in on Rob after he unexpectedly took a deep surf at Miracle Fabric on Robe. My fault though, I was following too close. He nailed my arm and it hurt for two weeks. But hey, I should have known better.

A really awesome creeker/raft guide I know was following me too close as I approached the Initiation boof on the Top Tye. I happened to find a pocket of slow water that killed my speed and shifted me to the right of where the Money Boof is. His boat plugged the drop, diving beneath mine. His mouth was bleeding and he ended up with an expensive dental bill. I felt horrible, on account that I botched my line, causing him to end up right on my tail as I plunged over the wrong part of the drop. But he was following way closer than necessary and therefore wasn't accounting for random, less ideal outcomes...

fu*kin Hawthorn boofed onto my chest once In that manky little entrance slot above Gettin Busy. I got pinned, upside down, with my chest on a flat rock the size of your average coffee table, with my boat over top me. He should have waited till he saw me completely out of the channel, in the eddy below looking upstream at him before he even entered. Instead he boofed onto my hull, squashing my torso between my deck and the rock I was draped over. I can laugh about it now, and he is definitely a conscious individual whom I have a ton of respect for, but that sh*t knocked the wind out of me. Those are just the examples that come to mind.

Sorry to take the thread in a different direction, but the following too close is the issue. Avoiding these circumstances is why our parents (hopefully) raise us to be thinking, considerate critters. This sh*t is avoidable 90% of the time.

Mike does illustrate a certain level of awareness by sharing his experience though. My take is however that if a boater has those reflexes and awareness to begin w/ they should be able to avoid collisions. Once its occuring, though, and it will happen to all of us if we boat long enough, those insights are to be heard. Even in the split second before impact, choices can be made to minimize the damage.
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Slackkinhard
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  Quote Slackkinhard Replybullet Posted: 10 Dec 2014 at 3:02pm
Dern playboats are slow 
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irenen
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  Quote irenen Replybullet Posted: 10 Dec 2014 at 5:02pm
JP, I love ya, but you're killin' me, again...  This site is professorpaddle.com, not perfectpaddler.com.  This reminds me of when that guy posted about his pinned boat and got berated for 'leaving plastic in the river'.  It would be nice if the regular non-kayaking-demi-gods could post about their regular experiences on here without wondering if they're going to get sniped at for having the experience in the first place.  (And I'm not talking about Mike, who couldn't care less what anyone thinks unless he feels they have a legitimate point and who also has no idea I'm writing this.)  I feel like that kind of attitude discourages newer paddlers from sharing and encourages a more elitist atmosphere on this site.  Just my two cents - we all have opinions.
It's all fun and games until someone loses a paddle.
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mikenash
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  Quote mikenash Replybullet Posted: 10 Dec 2014 at 5:11pm
Sounds like you need to lift your game. Getting stuck in holes forcing other boaters to come in on top of you and hurting themselves trying to avoid you. Maybe you should step it down a little and work on your skills ;)
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jP
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  Quote jP Replybullet Posted: 11 Dec 2014 at 4:12pm
Hey, I don't got a problem with your point of view. I'm not trying to detract from it.

You are taking this personally. That is not my problem. I ain't perfect. I admit it. But, it sure sucks when boaters hurt each other.

All it takes is being conscious of our actions and their potentiall consequences. Mike, you approach whitewater with a much more rough and tumble approach than me. I dig it. Respect it even. I wish I could be more like you (in some ways).

But the things I've learned over my Epoch of paddling are Legit, too. So if you can't dig what I'm saying,

Fine.

But you need to take a step back also and respect that I have a much much broader view of causality. About 35 years worth. I've seen the same stupid sh*t happen again and again and again and again....

Usually because people can't, or won't take a broader view at the big picture. Many paddlers jump to the wrong conclusion that chance plays a bigger role in all of this when really, Gross Negligence might be a more appropriate term.

Forums are meant to be an exchange of ideas, your ideas not least among them. So I don't see any problem here. I am sorry if you do.

But what I said isn't meant to criticize Mike at all. Thought I made that clear. An ounce of prevention... I'm sure you heard that one.
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chipmaney
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  Quote chipmaney Replybullet Posted: 11 Dec 2014 at 6:50pm
Forums are supposed to be about an exchange of ideas--a respectful exchange. When words like "better, farther reaching wisdom" get used, then people are made to feel attacked and belittled. It is true that experienced paddlers have a lot to teach, but such does not make one a good teacher. Thanks, Mike, for the palatable perspective. Love ya, man! Not that I could ever pull that move off; pretty sure it would just seperate my arm from my shoulder. You're a beast!

Edited by chipmaney - 11 Dec 2014 at 6:52pm
sitting all alone on a mountain by a river that has no end
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BurningDaylight
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  Quote BurningDaylight Replybullet Posted: 12 Dec 2014 at 11:40am
What's all the fightin' about now? Kayaking is supposed to be fun! Intead of looking at all the good things about it, you tear yourselves apart talkin' about what's wrong with it.  This is the time of year we should be boofin' on ice and baking cookies...let's get back to it!
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  Quote jP Replybullet Posted: 12 Dec 2014 at 3:48pm
That's fair. I guess I just don't see what the big deal is. And I guess once again I was too forceful about my point. Sorry about that. But the point still should stand.

Kayaking is fun.
Just not so much fun when avoidable sh*t happens and people get hurt as a result. Seen too much of that. Most Accidents are avoidable.
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