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geomorph
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  Quote geomorph Replybullet Topic: Bad recirc, good learning opportunity
    Posted: 11 Mar 2015 at 12:50pm

I saw this a few days ago and haven’t been able to get it out of my mind.  It’s a good learning opportunity.

Helmet cam of a bad recirc



Helmet cam of upstream rescuer.  Before bashing the rescue, please be sure to read full YouTube description from the rescuer.  They had taken SWR and acknowledge the need to practice their skills.

When I watched the video from the perspective of the upstream rescuer I wondered what I would have done.  I probably wouldn’t have thrown my rope given the inability to pull the swimmer to safety from that position, but I don’t know if I would have clipped my rope to my rescue tether, thrown my bag to the downstream guy, and done a live bait rescue (which is what I’ve settled on as the best course of action). 

A couple of thoughts I had after watching this several times: 1) Be sure to burp your drysuit.  She looks like a Michelin Man to me.  Folks on Mtn. Buzz commented that she should have gone deep to escape the recirc, but it is hard to go deep with a suit full of air; 2) Always take your rope with you when you get out of the kayak; and 3) Review and practice river safety techniques (including knots in case you have to deal with a heavier load). With regards to the last one, I found these videos to be somewhat helpful.

The alpine butterfly is an alternative to the directional 8 for creating a mid-rope loop. It has the advantage of being stable regardless of the direction of pull.



Edited by geomorph - 11 Mar 2015 at 4:13pm
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  Quote imageAK Replybullet Posted: 11 Mar 2015 at 1:16pm
It definitely looks to me as if the extra air in her suit is going a long way to hinder her being able to swim very well? Idk though, I knew well before I owned a drysuit to burp your drysuit...
I certainly agree with the notion that the upstream rescuer made a bad choice, maybe exacerbated by a little panic from the swimmer, then again maybe he thought he could swing her to a better current that would flush her? After watching the rescuer perspective I think I would have jumped across the gap to the rock on the left and straddled, then heaved and pulled her into the current on the left instead of the meat of that recirc there in the right slanting drop... If I was upstream of course.

A live bait rescue could have helped weight her down enough to flush also.

Feedback??

Edited by imageAK - 11 Mar 2015 at 1:27pm
aint nobody got time for that!
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  Quote geomorph Replybullet Posted: 11 Mar 2015 at 1:39pm
Originally posted by imageAK

[...] After watching the rescuer perspective I think I would have jumped across the gap to the rock on the left and straddled, then heaved and pulled her into the current on the left instead of the meat of that recirc there in the right slanting drop


He might have been afraid of missing the jump, falling in and becoming swimmer two in the recirc.  He seems to have been considering that senario once he got her on the rope, which is why he seems to wait until he can get the downstream guy to secure him before he makes his leap (to the water, not the rock, but you get the idea).

I'd have probably played the same game.  Number 1 rule in river rescue, never become part of the problem  (I'm paraphrasing and I'm sure someone will set me straight).

The video also highlights the potential danger of having ropes in the water for a swimmer being recirculated.  Notice how she gets it wrapped around her. 



Edited by geomorph - 11 Mar 2015 at 2:10pm
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  Quote water wacko Replybullet Posted: 11 Mar 2015 at 3:15pm
One scenario is the upstream rescuer deploys his rope to the downstream rescuer. Once DS rescuer has the other end, US rescuer becomes live bait, jumping onto/next to victim pulling her out. In this instance contact with the victim would be faster if the US rescuer/live-bait had a tow tether integrated into the rescue belt. Clip on the end of the throw bag and… instant live-bait. In this case the current isn't swift or violent, so I would feel comfortable just holding onto the end vs clipping in making it even faster. In the end it's what each of the team is comfortable with and capable of. Some have more experience than others. I watched it too and it's a little unnerving how long she's in the hole, and you can see she's in survival mode with the death grip on that rope… even if she's just getting drug under. Don't make contact with the victim unless you are sure it will be effective. My $0.02
"Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." ~Howard Thurman
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  Quote peteg Replybullet Posted: 11 Mar 2015 at 3:29pm
I haven't seen anyone talk about better proactive safety. For a spot that has a notorious (from what I've heard) danger spot which inexperienced boaters are attempting, I would've set safety before she got in the hole so a rope could've been thrown before she got so worked. I'm judging inexperience by her very passive paddling leading into the boof as well as her swimming technique. From what IVe seen elsewhere the usual line doesn't even boof this hole so it seems strange not to set some kind of safety beforehand.

Edited by peteg - 11 Mar 2015 at 3:43pm
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  Quote imageAK Replybullet Posted: 11 Mar 2015 at 3:41pm
Agreed! All around. The preemptive safety could have easily been set seeing how many individuals were already around twiddling their thumbs. Another thing that this re-enforces for me is the need to practice your skills and scenarios.

I know for one,as I dont paddle with many other paddlers, that the people usually on the river with me arent proficient enough or smart enough to deal with any quickly developing situations especially ones involving complex physics and fluid dynamics.

I'll totally be scheduling SRT days from now on, to brush up and practice new aspects of the river rescue! self and supported! anyone with any literature they recommend?


Loving this post, wish there were more like it.



Edited by imageAK - 11 Mar 2015 at 3:43pm
aint nobody got time for that!
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  Quote geomorph Replybullet Posted: 11 Mar 2015 at 5:44pm
Originally posted by water wacko

In this case the current isn't swift or violent, so I would feel comfortable just holding onto the end vs clipping in making it even faster. In the end it's what each of the team is comfortable with and capable of.

Originally posted by peteg

I haven't seen anyone talk about better proactive safety. For a spot that has a notorious (from what I've heard) danger spot which inexperienced boaters are attempting, I would've set safety before she got in the hole so a rope could've been thrown before she got so worked.

Good points.

30 seconds into the swim, a guy in a red boat drops in and eddies out to the left.  At 1:22 into the swim, the swimmer helmet shows him still in his boat, probably hoping that the person in the green striped drysuit will hit her with the throwbag and they can perform a boat assist.  Based on the rescuer video, it looks like the person in the red boat is finally getting out of their boat 1min 56 sec into the swim.

I’m not surprised by the actions of the person in the red kayak.  From the eddy, you’ve got to be thinking… I not going in there because then we’d both be stuck.  Then they sit back in a nearby location in case she comes out and needs a boat assist.  Finally, you decide to get out of your boat and directly assist the guy in green. 

If red kayak had headed immediately to shore, they could have gotten her out at least a minute earlier.  What would you have done? 


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  Quote runawayjim Replybullet Posted: 11 Mar 2015 at 5:49pm
Great topic. I agree with a few points people already made and have some additional points to add.

1.Always have your throwbag on you (and if you have a bad memory from all those safety meetings, maybe get yourself a bag that you can wear as belt like the Salamander bags which also work as tow tethers). Doesn't hurt to carry some webbing, biners, and pulleys in your vest too, but that's another topic. With that said, also make sure you can throw your bag ACURATELY. There were a few missed throws in that video, and a throwbag does you no good if you can’t make the toss. It was suggested to me to get out and toss a bag every week. This also helps to reduce instances of rope knotting. When you throw, you’ve got to repack the rope and get rid of any knots that may have formed and will notice if the rope is going bad in spots from sitting in your boat for the past decade. Also, know how to quickly coil up your rope and toss it again. Practice this skill, otherwise you’re going to have to repack your bag in order to make a second attempt at a toss. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-bjjWQ58po

2. Set safety before you need to use it. For those class V chargers out there who know their crew well, you know when this is necessary, but for everyone else, don’t take chances and know the ability of your crew.

3. Don’t use your rope unless it’s going to effective. That rope thrown from upstream was just floating around with a lot of slack and could’ve easily turned a bad situation into a worse one. Use your rope effectively and don’t allow there to be lots of excess slack that can get wrapped around someone’s arm, leg or neck!

4. HELP RESCUE YOURSELF! I know, easier said than done when getting thrashed in a hole, but be an active swimmer. Don’t just sit there and wait for someone to rescue you. Actively swim – down, out, left, right, ball up, etc. Maybe it’s just me, but I saw a few instances where the swimmer was toward the outer edge of the hole and did not take a single stroke or kick that could’ve resulted in a self-rescue. The best rescue is a self-rescue, ropes should be considered backup for when you can’t rescue yourself.

Be safe out there people. Always good to practice all those rescue techniques on dry land. And take a swiftwater course if you have the opportunity.
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  Quote Slackkinhard Replybullet Posted: 11 Mar 2015 at 6:28pm
where is the best place to take the SW course?
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  Quote imageAK Replybullet Posted: 11 Mar 2015 at 6:35pm
Wet planet is good. Or the fire and rescue crew near kansakat trains on the green and they will let people sign up I believe
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  Quote runawayjim Replybullet Posted: 11 Mar 2015 at 6:37pm
Check out Rescue3 as well. http://www.rescue3international.com/R3search_courses.php
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  Quote megspk Replybullet Posted: 11 Mar 2015 at 7:59pm

I took a Rescue 3 SW class last spring and that was super informative.  I learned many things, including the fact that it DOES take PRACTICE to throw a rope consistently well.  I thought I'd be awesome at it, then I tried a few throws in a row and had a few crappy ones.  Practice makes perfect! Ropes, fluid dynamics, swimming, dealing with trees, and learning how to set up z drags and other types of skills are all things that we as boaters need to practice and understand.

I think the Outdoor Adventure Center also offers a swiftwater course this spring.
 
imageAK: "I know for one,as I dont paddle with many other paddlers, that the people usually on the river with me arent proficient enough or smart enough to deal with any quickly developing situations especially ones involving complex physics and fluid dynamics."-------->>>>I'd watch your river karma dude, or take a moment to teach your infrequent, "not smart", paddling partners some safety skills.
 
I was also taught: if you carry a rope, be sure to have a river knife!
 

 
“A strong person and a waterfall always channel their own path.” -Unknown

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  Quote turtlepower Replybullet Posted: 11 Mar 2015 at 8:08pm
Yeah, Rescue3 is pretty legit, but no need to wait until you can sign up for a class, just get out & practice. Whether you've had some training or none at all you still need to stay sharp & that is gained through consistent practice. Like runawayjim said, work on throwing the rope to improve your accuracy & reach as well as enhancing your speed on gathering the rope for another toss in case you missed on the first, one thing I learned awhile back was to coil the rope in one hand as you're pulling it back to you so that you can quickly redeploy a length of it vs taking time to stuff the bag again, I bet you could even pull in the bag, toss a couple rocks in it if the rope is out to give it some heft & then throw the bag again. Practicing your knot tying skills is never a bad idea either so when a situation arises you won't find yourself scratching your head trying to remember which knot you need & how to tie it. How quickly can you set up a z drag? These are just some general concepts that many know & some don't, but knowledge can be found easily, just search the web or talk to someone who you know can show you. And I'm not advocating against a SWR class, I think anyone that's planning on spending any time in a river should take a course but don't wait to practice until then & don't stop afterwards, stay proficient. If you feel like you're rusty then try to get a couple friends together to stage some scenarios in a manageable & contained environment. Another thing that I think is important is to know the environment that you're going to place yourself into & be aware of the characteristics & hazards that may go along with it. Things can unfold anywhere but certain places, certain types of rivers, can be more prone to having certain situations go down & being properly prepared will go a long way toward making the difference between having a good day vs a bad one. Know your surroundings, know your skills & those of your crew, have the tools necessary (ropes, break down paddle, carabiners, etc.), understand communication signals, & it never hurts to set safety if there's a question about it. But be proactive & practice those skills, it'll help you to act quickly & calmly in the presence of a situation where time is not always on your side. Be sharp, stay safe, & have fun!
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  Quote imageAK Replybullet Posted: 11 Mar 2015 at 8:08pm
Note taken. Its not quite that simple but when the choice is solo or with a raft full of pig headed guys I guess I'd rather get their back and have a witness to my death than paddle alone.
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  Quote imageAK Replybullet Posted: 11 Mar 2015 at 8:10pm
And I'm proficient in my roped rescue skills so its a lot of good judgement and use of my own skill set.

Edited by imageAK - 12 Mar 2015 at 12:04pm
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  Quote turtlepower Replybullet Posted: 11 Mar 2015 at 8:12pm
Don't forget to have a booty beer ready to go for the swimmer too, once they've been rescued of course!
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  Quote NateW Replybullet Posted: 11 Mar 2015 at 11:47pm
I really enjoyed the program that Alder Creek in Portland offered with the BCU. It was very heavily oriented toward rescuing kayakers and the stuff like the Z drag setup was very simple.

Obviously they should have had safety set with this group. I'd guess that the paddlers you see sitting in their boats were probably novice paddlers as well. The guy on the lower rock appears to have gotten out of his boat and attempted to throw to the swimmer at least once or twice before the upriver paddler got onto the scene.

My primary thought with this video isn't the rescue itself, it's that often times new paddlers are brought into rivers/rapids/etc that they are not prepared to paddle. I would take home the reminder that anytime you are taking a paddler out who is 'stepping up' you've got a responsibility for the weaker paddler. It's hard to say, but given the first video, it didn't appear that the paddler had any clue how to clear that recirc.

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  Quote Dale Replybullet Posted: 12 Mar 2015 at 9:31am
This was one of our staple runs when we lived in Kentucky. It's a heck of a nice class III-IV run with great playspots but it is also sievy and undercut like mad. You can swim under half those rocks you can see in the video.

Locals don't run the line this group ran... because it's a sticky bastard.

There is a slot off to the river left that "looks" much worse. It drops between 2 rocks and is often several feet deep, then spits you out. It looks like it's really sticky, but I've had my moments in it and I've seen others swim and I've never seen anybody get recirced more than a couple rounds. I'll try to dig up some video, but I know I don't have anything exciting.

The line they ran "looks" really easy... in kinda the same way a low head dam looks easy. It is well known locally that it's a sticky hole and locals never run that line.

I say all this as a warning to those who think they are "sneaking" when sometimes they are setting themselves up for disaster. This group probably thought they were sneaking the main line.

As for the swimmer:

1. Very passive paddling and poor technique entering the drop. She does not look like she has the skill set for this run.

2. Very passive swimming. I can't condemn her too much, as, I've never found myself in quite that sticky a hole. I've been trying to be careful. She should study "The Bombproof Roll and Beyond" by Pat Dutky.

1. The upstream guy getting her the rope was better than not. Even though he was struggling to come up with the solution, it gave her something to hold onto and probably beefed up her resolve and provided some slight amount of cheer. She probably needed it.

2. The guys downstream were struggling with rope. I think they got one to her once and she couldn't see/grab it.

3. These were just a bunch of weekenders. While it's excruciating to watch and it all seems really slow, they worked the problem and came up with a solution.

4. I give them a lot of credit for posting up the videos. It's invaluable to get to see how a mundane looking spot can get folks in trouble and of course spark conversation and ideas for rescue technique.

Washing Machine is the middle drop of The Big Three. 3 significant drops in a short space. 75-100 yards downstream is The El. It's a tricky little rapid. At some levels, it forms a beautiful tube. If you hit the tube in the middle, it will often manhandle you. If you hit the tube on the left, it will often grab you and sub you out, then spit you like a pumpkin seed. We're talking big air... sometimes into the rocks. Meryl's favorite move here was at 1000-1100cfs, drop into the tube nearly sideways for a meltdown ride similar to Flipper on the Ocoee. Somewhere between 3-4000cfs, the El becomes a great surfing spot. https://youtu.be/x6X-XOKsYMU









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  Quote tiziak Replybullet Posted: 12 Mar 2015 at 10:09am
Originally posted by imageAK

...when the choice is solo or with a raft full of pig headed guys I guess I'd rather get their back and have a witness to my death than paddle alone.


Awesome. Ha! Great stuff here folks. Practice with those throwbags; you never know when the guy with the beer in his cooler is gonna get stuffed into something nasty...
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  Quote imageAK Replybullet Posted: 12 Mar 2015 at 12:12pm
Ive relied a lot on knowledge of the river too. It seems like something novice paddlers do too often is just jump on new rivers. Its never a bad idea especially when you start moving up, or paddling alone, to hike a river & scout it.

Scouting two contrasting levels is always my goal.
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  Quote PaddleGirl Replybullet Posted: 12 Mar 2015 at 3:33pm
i have a question... let's say she came out unconscious and you need to perform CPR..

basic CPR training says you should remove all clothing out of the way to perform cpr. well, paddlers wear a lot of stuff... what do you guys think as far as removing pfd drysuit etc?
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  Quote geomorph Replybullet Posted: 12 Mar 2015 at 3:46pm

I'm no EMT, but some friends and I stumbled across a scene a few years ago and had to do CPR.  We definitely took the life jacket off before starting (or maybe after a breath and quick compression).  The drysuit wasn’t a problem, though you need to take a little more care to make sure their airway is open and their chest is rising with your breaths. The breaths may not want to go in if their lungs are full of water.

I would leave the drysuit alone on until EMS are on the scene.  It provides protection from the elements.  Once the sheriff arrived with his portable defibrillator, we cut the drysuit off.  I know some people carry scissors for this.  I have to admit that cutting someone’s drysuit off with a river knife is a little scary. 



Edited by geomorph - 12 Mar 2015 at 4:25pm
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  Quote megspk Replybullet Posted: 12 Mar 2015 at 5:01pm
Great question Jen.  With a backround in WFR, EMS, and nursing I know a little bit about CPR
 
In a river scenario I'd have to say taking off the PFD would be your best bet for efficient chest compressions.  In a typical river setting you are not going to have an AED or Defibrillator immediately accessible.  They advise removing clothing in basic CPR with the thought that EMS is only minutes away. 
 
On the river I'd say take off the PFD, the easiest way would be to put the person's arms up in the air in the "stick em up" position (when they are laying on the ground), loosen the PFD, remove the helmet, then pull the PFD up and over the victim's head and arms.  ***(If there is a potential for spinal cord injury, this is another whole bag of worms, but if a person isn't breathing and does not have a heart beat, do CPR, just minimize how much you move their head/neck)***
 
Be sure the victim is on a solid surface, you don't want to be doing CPR on multiple big rocks, you won't get good compressions and you'll increase the risk of breaking more ribs.  A big flat rock would work or solid ground, CPR does not work in the water, it's too difficult to get in a good position.
 
Emphasis is on circulation in new CPR courses, but rescue breaths are important too.  Don't forget to lift the chin and pinch the nose and make sure you have a good seal around the victims mouth.  You need to look for chest rise when doing a rescue breath, if you don't see the chest rise, repositon the victims head and try again.  There are devices you can get for a first aid kit that will protect you if you need to perfom mouth to mouth.  It's a simple plasitc sheet with a one way valve in case your victim vomits....which is very likely if they come back.
Here's a link for one: 
 
On cutting off the drysuit, I'd leave the drysuit intact to help keep the victim warm and dry.  If you had to cut off the suit for some reason and all you had was a river knife, I'd suggest starting at the gaskets of the neck and cutting away from the face.  You could also start at the wrists and work your way up, again avoiding the face.  I'd imagine the zipper is hard to cut through even if the zipper is open.  Another thing I keep in my PFD is one of those metallic blankets for warmth.  You could use this to keep your victim warm if they were not in a drysuit or their suit was removed.

NEVER leave your victim alone.  If you get someone back,stick with them!  Unfortunately we are not always able to bring a person back, so  you also have to think of your own safety.  Remember when the sun is going down and you've already been doing CPR for an hour or more, you have done the best that you can do.  You may have to leave them behind.  Mark the area well so it can be found the next day.

This brings up another point....how many people paddle with their phones?  I never do, but maybe I should? 
“A strong person and a waterfall always channel their own path.” -Unknown

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  Quote megspk Replybullet Posted: 12 Mar 2015 at 5:02pm
Chest compressions will also help to express water from a victim's lungs......
“A strong person and a waterfall always channel their own path.” -Unknown

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