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water wacko
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![Reply](forum_images/reply.gif) Topic: River complacency Posted: 09 Apr 2015 at 4:20pm |
I've experienced this and I know others have as well. More as a PSA than a rant, I wanted to discuss this topic as I know there are and will continue to be more and more kayakers stepping up their own game, learning new skills and rivers, and exposing themselves to increased risk as they do. The person/crew you paddle with can easily save your life... or not. This is a sobering reality of this sport and the backcountry in general. No one will come down into that canyon to find you, only those you paddle with. With that being said, for safety's sake please choose your crew wisely. Online forums can make it seem like people are different that they are... relationships different than they are. Kayaking can make you and your bro BROTHERS after just one time on the river together. But... in this day and age there appears to be a growing complacency and lack of common sense, especially as the river difficulty grows. Entrapments/swims/etc happen in the blink of an eye and if your crew isn't skilled (enough) or vested enough (in you) they might become a detached spectator while participating in YOUR rescue. How well do you know the skills your crew has? Have they taken a Swiftwater class? Have they been practicing rescue techniques, knots and systems? Do they have situational awareness, which means they know where the whole crew is and what's going on when kayaking through the tougher stuff (as well as the easier stuff)? Do YOU? Do you look back and count helmets while floating along (the whole way)? Do you have an unspoken connection with those in your crew or did you just meet online and this is your second trip together? Do you and your crew carry a whistle, river knife, and throwbag (at the very least) with a few carabiners and prussiks? Is your gear complimentary of itself and work well together?? These are all very important things to know and be diligently aware of because in the end... it is YOUR life or one of your crew. Even if you've done the run 300 times... Boulder Drop still makes people swim and that wood in the boulder garden below Box Drop on the Tye STILL catches paddlers. Be safe, be skilled and stay aware... of your environment, your crew and most of all, what you are personally capable of. Because you don't want to become a victim of a rescue you are trying to help out with. If you haven't taken a class, or even if you have but it's been a while... practice. There are plenty of videos online, but the most effective way of learning and instilling these techniques is taking a class taught by an experienced professional who teaches with the right gear and has the knowledge and experience to answer ALL of your questions as well as teaching you the right gear to use for the situation at hand. Do you practice with your crew? Have you developed signals and ways of communicating you are all familiar with? To the point you can communicate with hand signals in an emergency... fluently? This year especially being the low snow year it is, it's easy to jump on a trip and go with folks you don't know because there's water. There is always a weak link every time you get on the river. Try never to be that weak link and if you are, make sure you have the skills or awareness to know what to run and what to walk. It's a respectful thing and a way to honor your group (not having to pull you out of a spot that could've been avoided) staying out of trouble and keeping a vigilant eye... from put in to take out. Are you going to run that super sketchy drop everyone usually portages? Be certain your crew can effect an efficient and speedy rescue if things go wrong. Do you know the danger spots and channels/areas to avoid? Does your crew? The reality is in almost every case you are the only backup you and your crew will ever get. By the time S & R get there it is very often too late if the victim has a compromised airway. Most scenarios can be avoided if you have situational awareness and have your crew's back. Have your crew's back! Get schooled, get experienced and get stoked!! Because this is one aspect of kayaking and backcountry livin' that complacency DOES NOT belong. Doing it right the first time is where it's at. This is a friendly reminder and I'd be happy to talk to any of you about rescue/safety, good gear or whatever. Boating safe is where it's at, all jokes aside. Be safe out there y'all and let's have some fun this year... and years to come!!! ![](smileys/smiley14.gif)
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"Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." ~Howard Thurman
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Nick
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![Reply](forum_images/reply.gif) Posted: 09 Apr 2015 at 4:46pm |
This is great B-rett! I'm keen to have a get together for the Sultan release weekend and go through proper safety. My place April 24th 8:00p.m. + if anyone needs/wants a place to crash in Snohomish. Run the Sultan on the 25th for those registered (50+) and run safety on the Sky the 26th...?
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imageAK
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![Reply](forum_images/reply.gif) Posted: 09 Apr 2015 at 4:57pm |
Well said, It's this sort of thing that I was most interested in(as a beginner paddler) and still am interested in(as a beginner paddler).
The very complacency you speak of is the same reason I no longer paddle with a few of the folks I started with.
One of the big mistakes we(myself & those mentioned previously) found it quite easy to make & in their case easy to ignore was falling into the trap of over confidence.
From the very beginning it seemed quite easy to barrel through progressive skills and make it to class 3 stuff without much effort... This is where I took a step back.
Watching my friends gear up each successive time for something bigger and bigger only because we hadnt experienced a game changing situation yet didnt sit well by me. But it made me realize its easy to think you are a badass & move forward too swiftly.
After a failed attempt to talk them off a bank full 10k cfs run and walking off with my kayak I started paddling by myself mostly.
While it sounds like a step in the wrong direction, taking extra time in my paddles,scouting & even portaging features I know I could run, has surely paid off.
Its much more fun to pay extra attention and learn to experience and enjoy the entire river instead of just that next step up or that next big thing!
&&& in the long run(especially in years like this dry one coming) it pays off to love the highs and the lows!
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aint nobody got time for that!
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SOPBOATER
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![Reply](forum_images/reply.gif) Posted: 10 Apr 2015 at 7:22am |
A really simple often overlooked thing is making sure all the little ducklings are still behind you. Twice I've come upon people pinned on the little white with the group long gone and probably not aware. Once the person had one from the group with them and was out of the boat. Second was a solo boater, or I thought solo standing on the bank trying to unpin a boat. We caught back up to the group like half a mile later. They were like ,"dude, bro, what happened did you have to pee?". Keep track of people, like at the bottom of every rapid. Doesn't take a moment, you can still blue angel it.
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water wacko
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![Reply](forum_images/reply.gif) Posted: 10 Apr 2015 at 8:07am |
The Sultan River is a GREAT example!! IV+ rating, right? AW has worked with the local utility and created a release for us to paddle... 'safe' right? Prolly fun too, eh? Party!! New River!! ehh?? But this river is a bit of an anomaly in that it usually has about 20cfs running through the canyon pretty much all the time. Only when the Skykomish is around 40k or higher do the gatekeepers spill their toil. Unfortunately for the river this means the wood that falls in off those tall unstable banks only washes far enough downstream to collect in jumbles of precarious jams. Wood in nearly every rapid and in between. LOTS of wood that will take a biblical flood (likely one that would take that dam out) to clean the gullet. Wood issues are HIGH on the incident list in the PNW. So make sure you are prepared to deal if you are going in to this stretch. Access and egress, once again, are pretty much limited to your crew. And in this situation, just like the Chelan releases, we can act as brothers out there, but the situational awareness and taking action FIRST when it comes to YOUR SPECIFIC crew member who may be in trouble is the prudent and responsible action to be taken. Don't hesitate just because another kayaker might be a little closer. Actually, you should probably already be in position before the ka-ka hit the fan, no? Whoever you meet and arrange with beforehand IS YOUR CREW. Don't rely on or expect others to pick up your crew's slack. Ever. That's good boating practice. Practice being a 'contained unit'. Practice good safety, especially on the Sultan. This experience and gained confidence (and wise judgement) may (eventually) lead to bigger trips like the Grand Canyon Elwha where most of the time paddlers are in a 200 foot deep box with must run class V and no chance of access from or to the outside. This is a great sport, my favorite. Things happen and stuff gets worked out, but let's be professionals out there when we're facing danger as a crew. Have each others' back, set good safety, practice good judgement and be always aware of where your crew is. It's just you guys out there! See ya on the Sultan!! ![](smileys/smiley39.gif) ![](smileys/smiley28.gif)
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"Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." ~Howard Thurman
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smcboating
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![Reply](forum_images/reply.gif) Posted: 10 Apr 2015 at 10:53am |
Great post Brett. Its so easy to become complacent, especially when there are so many great paddlers in the area. Sometimes safety just seems like a given.
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If 6 Was 9
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doggievacation
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![Reply](forum_images/reply.gif) Posted: 10 Apr 2015 at 1:54pm |
Counting helmets/ keeping track of everyone in your group is huge... doesn't matter how difficult the run is, or who's in the group... just do it all the time. Any time I get flipped in a rapid and roll up, the first thing I do is look around to see who noticed I went over. Lots of times, the answer is "no one."
On the flip side, I've tried to develop a sixth sense of knowing when to look back behind me. If you observe everyone in your group, it doesn't take long to figure out who you've got to keep an eye on, and what features are most likely to give them trouble... even if you just met everyone for the first time at the put in.
Edited by doggievacation - 10 Apr 2015 at 1:55pm
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Don't waste water!
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jP
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![Reply](forum_images/reply.gif) Posted: 10 Apr 2015 at 4:38pm |
Bravo, Brett--
Great thread to start. Never goes out of style. Glad I don't have to be the only one to raise these issues. For years on this very forum I have felt alone in these sentiments.
Yall gotta understand the Concept of Causality as it pertains to Whitewater. Cause and Effect.
If your raft tags the Dragon's Back at 3900 or so, and you have a weak crew who has slow reaction time (usually the case), your next move is either high siding on House Rock, or hopefully adapting to plan C which is more attractive: resign yourself that "If Blown Right, Stay Right" and update your mental map. You are now running your raft through Flypaper. Hopefully you prepared them to High Side. Cause and Effect.
If you don't absolutely nail your Last Sunshine Boof, and half the time even if you do, be prepared to get Slammed into the Gnome Wall on R. Left. Cause and Effect. Once you and your boat Grind along the Gnome Wall, even the best paddlers can miss one or two roll attempts. Now theyhave eaten up their "moving pool time" and are approaching the next ramp towards action. Cause and Effect. So you gotta have a strong roll and a solid boof before you ever hike into that put-in. And swimming there is not much of a option. Ask someone who has. Cause and Effect.
SO yall new comers need to respect and take a queue from those of us who've been around and are still in the game. sh*t I remember portaging a rapid in the Clarks Fork of the Yellowstone (The Box). I knew I coulndnt execute the move so I walked while a paddler of inferior skill decided to tumble dice when dice just arent gona work at all. He got upside down and sustained the very Concussion I tried to point out to him. Can't say I was overly sympathetic at that point, but there we all were together in that 2 day deep ass canyon...Cause and Effect.
Most accidents are preventable. We all gotta push our own envelopes, its partly why we paddle. But let's act like we are high minded individuals while we go about it. I'm not advocating being overly fearful or debilitated by the consequences. But honesty, integrity, and communication is very important. As important as swiftwater rescue skills. Staying out of trouble is the best.
If the front end of your crew eddies out, SO SHOULD YOU. Esspecially if they are leading you. Learn to boat AS A GROUP. because honestly, what I've mostly observed are grouos of 6-10 people Boating Solo Together. So why boat with these people besides having a convienient shuttle?
I remember when every boater would run a rapid and turn to observe those trailing behind.it was more fun because people participated in your glory as well as your perils."Did you SEE THAT?" "yeah, that was SICK!!"
Nowadays it seems like Muddiphukas never even turn around.
Like when I got throttled on Robe at 6.2' and my skirt imploded during my hole beat down. My flooded cockpit flushed me and the salto out of the hole. I rolled up and paddled to shore. Cody was 1/4mi ahead never even turned around. When he did he threw his arms up in the air like "WTF dude?" And a boater whose name begins w/ an "R" was 1/4Mi ahead of him was long out of site.
Well, "WTF, Cody?" where the fu*k you at now? Love ya bro, but damn...
Now I like to think I can take care of myself (probably not 100% true). But DAMN it when people look up to these complacent people because of their epic feats. So yeah, I am ranting. But when you see the same stupid cause and effect relationships play outover 3 decades, not only is it frustrating, its HEART BREAKING.especially when you add up all the dislocated shoulders and psychological scars left behind after someone didnt know better and was lead to slaughter by irresponsiblie, GROSSLY NEGLIGENT,so-called "Leaders".
We are Humans. We have one life each. We are better than this. Lets elevate ourselves. The rewards are limitless.
Edited by jP - 10 Apr 2015 at 4:44pm
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🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋
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water wacko
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![Reply](forum_images/reply.gif) Posted: 10 Apr 2015 at 7:58pm |
People can and will continue to choose poorly and that is part of what this thread is about. First hand experiences, gear questions and thoughts/questions about rescue, commitment, "feelin it" or not, and things pertaining to playing a respectful/responsible role on the river are welcome. This ISN'T the thread to kick a dead horse, hash out a past incident or rant to your heart's content. No, this is a thread for respectful adult discussion regarding a topic even more important than Gittin' Some, Giv'ner or even.. getting stoked. This thread is about rescuing your bro in a bad spot quickly, on the first attempt. It's serious and deserves respect. If it's your first few years it's okay to not have your kayaking world dialed. This thread will help answer some questions and discuss other aspects or stuff not always shown on the Bomb n Biff video. Took me a while to get my kit dialed and I still change things around from time to time. The important point is that the skills and equipment DO get dialed in along with the connection and awareness to those you're on the river with. If you've been boating a few years then it's about time to take a rescue class. Incidents happen, even on class II, and the river environment is about as "backcountry" as it gets. It's important to be prepared. Throwing a throwbag with accuracy, having a river knife attached to the outside of your PFD where you can grab it (and not have to reach for and unfold it), and knowing how to rig an anchor are three things any kayaker should know how to do by the time they've paddled 100 river trips, maybe less than that. Opinions will differ, but this isn't a bad general standard to adopt for yourself. Some will move faster than others on this, but in general taking a rescue class, getting kayak-specific rescue equipment (and knowing/practicing with it), and maintaining the gear and knowledge with group practice is a standard. If you paddle class III, take a rescue class. If you paddle harder stuff, be versed in rescue techniques and gear others use as well as your own. Paddle class V... this should all be second nature. FIRST-AID & CPR I just took a first aid and CPR class last week at my local hospital FOR FREE!!! Check around your area they exist and are offered more than just the fifth Friday of every month Did your bro just flip in that drop he normally walks and now he's got summ'r teeth (summ'r in the boat, summ'r in the riv, summ'r...)? Do you know how to assess a scene like this and apply necessary first aid? Or maybe your other bro is allegic to bee stings, was running back to help your first bro, got stung and is now having an anaphylactic reaction (his throat is swelling shut/compromised airway). Do you have an epi-pen or know how to use one? Does he? Did you know your bro was allergic beforehand? Do you know what to do if there is no epinephrine? Do you have a first-aid kit along with your rescue kit? If you've been paddling for a bit you should. If you're trip-leading it's expected and the only responsible way to lead a group into the watery wilderness of the PNW. Staying safe and being able to deal with unfortunate situations are most certainly a part of having fun on the riv. Stay safe out there y'all, and fire away with those questions and comments. I promise jP won't jump through the screen every time you click on PP!! jP is a whitewater samurai from an ancient line of whitewater enthusiasts ![](smileys/lorax.gif) He carries a big whitewater sword and knows how to use it, but really... he just wants everyone to stay safe and remain accountable on the riv. Love ya, jP...
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"Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." ~Howard Thurman
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Slackkinhard
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![Reply](forum_images/reply.gif) Posted: 10 Apr 2015 at 10:30pm |
First of all, I really appreciate all the input in this thread. I'm still very new to kayaking. Been at it for about 6 months and really wanted to learn the right way for once in my life. Last summer, went on a couple guided rafting trips, talked to a couple of the guides and was told to buy an IK and learn to paddle. I was told the Wenatchee was a good 'beginner' river, so I threw myself in alongside a rafting trip and promptly got throttled, swam every rapid. Went to Idaho on a road trip and threw myself in the Selway, promptly got throttled, did a lot of swimming. Came back to WA and put on the Skykomish. Made it through the boulder drop run a couple times unscathed, but then I flipped and hurt my shoulder. There goes the 'do it right for once' idea. I really didn't know what I was doing and didn't have any friends that wanted to learn. At that point, I needed to heal for a few months, but while healing I took the time to re-up my CPR, took a Wilderness First Aid course, joined the WKC, obtained a new boat (4Fun), took a course with Heather Herbeck on the Sky, and thanks to some great ladies here on PP, made it out on the SF Snoqualmie. Had some issues with that little boat...a guy I know felt bad for me and gave me a cracked Nomad 8.5 to weld up. Come New Years day I made it out on the Cispus...since that time I've been on the Sauk, Green, MF Snoqualmie, and a Skagit eagle trip, along with 7or8 trips on the Sky(portaging boulder now cuz I'm queasy). I just got done taking the swiftwater rescue course through Wetplanet, and I'm taking a rafting guide training course that will give me more practice, however I'd like to meet up with some others with goals to improve all these skills. Anybody that wants a willing participant, ping me
Edited by Slackkinhard - 10 Apr 2015 at 10:46pm
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JayB
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![Reply](forum_images/reply.gif) Posted: 10 Apr 2015 at 11:10pm |
Great thread, Brett. I've chimed in with similar thoughts on other threads from time to time, but after finding myself solo-boating in groups in more committing rivers where a more cohesive, golden-rule-ish ethos was in order...I started thinking that the best way to make sure that you boat with a crew that looks after you like a friend is to....make sure that you are friends with your crew.
Obviously this is a a rule that's hard to live by all the time, but there's a certain level of trust, vigilance, etc that are a natural byproduct of friendship that it's probably not wise to expect of strangers as a matter of course.
There are lots of exceptional people in the boating community that are just hard-wired to do the things that Brett mentioned, but there are also plenty that don't.
One way to make sure that you're boating with people who *do* do everything that Brett spells out when it counts is to restrict your harder boating to folks that not only have the technical chops to hold-up their end of the bargain, but who think and behave like your friends...because they are your friends.
Clearly you can take that principle too far, but if the crew your with has at least a critical mass of people who fall into the "trusted friend" category, I think you'll be much less likely to find yourself boating alone in situations where everyone needs to be looking out for one another.
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-Jay
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Slackkinhard
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![Reply](forum_images/reply.gif) Posted: 15 Apr 2015 at 10:25pm |
Out on the Sky this afternoon, we come across a couple paddlers. A guy and a gal on river left, had just putin at the confluence. The guy was in a kayak, the gal in an open whitewater canoe with a whole bunch of ropes. Both from outta town, and when I paddled up to say 'hi', I asked if they knew the run. They didn't. I asked if they knew about boulder drop, she said 'she ran it yesterday in a raft'. He tells me this is his first time on a river in a kayak....and it kinda looks like it. He's a wobbly in an old boat. I told them they should portage boulder.
We get to Boulder Drop, and the guy portages with me, but the girl decides to run it. She flips at the needle and ends up recirculating a couple times with her boat, but is able to swim free, goes right around house rock and barely misses the sieve on the far right. She's smiling as she floats on through and I collect her boat and drag her to shore. The guy drops into the water and tries to ferry across the river and flips in the current...can't roll, he swims, surfaces holding onto his boat. I tell him to swim for the shore cuz the wier is upon us, I try to collect his boat, but it's full of water and goes over the ledge and flushes. We get it collected on river left, but he's on river right. Wes goes and gets him, brings him over. At this point, I tell them it's probably best if they hike out. They tell me they just want to rest awhile, then they'll go on. I ask if they know about lunch hole, or aquagasm....they shake their head. I tell them I really don't recommend it. They are somewhat insistent, so I tell them to stay center to avoid the holes. At this point I'm not sure what to say. They want us to go, so we did. Hope they made it out ok.
What would you have done?
Edited by Slackkinhard - 15 Apr 2015 at 10:28pm
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Mauler!
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![Reply](forum_images/reply.gif) Posted: 16 Apr 2015 at 10:13am |
It was awesome fun paddlig a big rapid with an open boater. She had a good chance......shouldn't have listened to me! Lol. I know most people don't like open boaters, but its fun watching them try.
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BrianP
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![Reply](forum_images/reply.gif) Posted: 16 Apr 2015 at 2:32pm |
I love open boaters. As long as I know beforehand to plan an extra couple hours, it's great rescue practice.
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jalmquist
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![Reply](forum_images/reply.gif) Posted: 16 Apr 2015 at 3:41pm |
Originally posted by Slackkinhard
What would you have done?
I think at that point I would have just motored down to Lunch Hole, found a sunny spot on the gravel bar, pulled out a sandwich, and watched the show.
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megspk
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![Reply](forum_images/reply.gif) Posted: 16 Apr 2015 at 7:01pm |
Originally posted by water wackoFIRST-AID & CPR I just took a first aid and CPR class last week at my local hospital FOR FREE!!! Check around your area they exist and are offered more than just the fifth Friday of every month Did your bro just flip in that drop he normally walks and now he's got summ'r teeth (summ'r in the boat, summ'r in the riv, summ'r...)? Do you know how to assess a scene like this and apply necessary first aid? Or maybe your other bro is allegic to bee stings, was running back to help your first bro, got stung and is now having an anaphylactic reaction (his throat is swelling shut/compromised airway). Do you have an epi-pen or know how to use one? Does he? Did you know your bro was allergic beforehand? Do you know what to do if there is no epinephrine? Do you have a first-aid kit along with your rescue kit? If you've been paddling for a bit you should. If you're trip-leading it's expected and the only responsible way to lead a group into the watery wilderness of the PNW. Staying safe and being able to deal with unfortunate situations are most certainly a part of having fun on the riv.
Great point WaterWacko! Thanks for sharing about the local options for CPR and First Aid for FREE! I feel like every boater out there should know the basics....and practice them.
Keeping some benadryl in your rescue bag is great for unexpected allergic reactions. You can actually have a victim chew the tablets of benadryl to make them work more effectively. Anyone with a bee sting allergy that is significant enough to cause anaphylaxis should have an epi pen on them and make their crew aware of where they keep it in their boat/person. Also making your first aid kit apparent by labeling it well with a cross can help partners identify it quickly from the rest of your gear.
If you suffer from some type of medical ailment (seizures, diabetes, angina) it's always a good idea to tell at least one person in your crew so they are aware.
Edited by megspk - 16 Apr 2015 at 7:11pm
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“A strong person and a waterfall always channel their own path.” -Unknown
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dave
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![Reply](forum_images/reply.gif) Posted: 16 Apr 2015 at 8:57pm |
It dosent mater anymore, theres no water, no snow, no rain, im getting fat and the rivers are dry....
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Nomad
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jcboaterboy
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![Reply](forum_images/reply.gif) Posted: 16 Apr 2015 at 9:57pm |
Seriously Dave! I'm feeling that way too.
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water wacko
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![Reply](forum_images/reply.gif) Posted: 19 Apr 2015 at 7:33am |
Originally posted by dave
It dosent mater anymore, theres no water, no snow, no rain, im getting fat and the rivers are dry.... A great time to practice your rescue skills, bro. How many pulleys do you need to build a pig rig? How many do you carry? How many prussiks?
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"Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." ~Howard Thurman
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