Professor Paddle: Helmets vanlinelogistics.com Seattle Washington (WA) Warehousing & Order Fulfillment vanlinelogistics.com Seattle Washington (WA) Warehousing & Order Fulfillment vanlinelogistics.com Seattle Washington (WA) Commercial Relocation vanlinelogistics.com Warehousing & Order Fulfillment
Professor Paddle Professor Paddle
  RegisterRegister  LoginLogin
Home Calendar Forum FSBO Gallery PPages Reviews Rivers Links
  Active TopicsActive Topics  Display List of Forum MembersMemberlist  Search The ForumSearch
Whitewater Forum
 Professor Paddle : General : Whitewater Forum
Message Icon Topic: Helmets Post Reply Post New Topic
Author Message
PaddleGirl
McNasty
McNasty
Avatar

Joined: 18 Oct 2010
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 266
  Quote PaddleGirl Replybullet Topic: Helmets
    Posted: 31 May 2016 at 6:22pm
I want to ask you guys for your opinions regarding helmets for rafting specifically. Most rafters on the wenatchee river don't wear helmets nor do commercial rafting guests. What do you guys think about that? Do you think they should? What about at low water? In all my years of kayaking I have always worn helmets and have replaced three of them due to hard hits and cracks. I wouldn't think about not wearing it while going through rapids. What about you guys?

IP IP Logged Send Private Message
BrianP
McNasty
McNasty


Joined: 26 Sep 2010
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 344
  Quote BrianP Replybullet Posted: 31 May 2016 at 8:10pm
Most rafting head injuries I've seen don't come from rocks but from other people and paddles inside the raft. I doubt that an average commercial customer can adequately gauge the risks involved and make an informed decision for themselves. They should almost always be in a helmet. I've taken enough headshots either guiding from a kayak or the back of a raft to know I'm sure as hell wearing one. We require all customers to wear it. Even if we didn't feel like they were necessary, it's just too easy for a judge to toss out your liability waiver when they look at the other 95% of the industry wearing helmets. The lawyers will scream negligence all the way to pay day.

Edit: I guess the Wenatchee is kind of a unique case. You'd have to try pretty damn hard to hit a rock. Still though, you can fu*k someone up pretty good by bashing heads together with heads and or paddles and it's mostly preventable with a helmet.

Edited by BrianP - 31 May 2016 at 8:13pm
IP IP Logged Send Private Message Send Private Message
PaddleGirl
McNasty
McNasty
Avatar

Joined: 18 Oct 2010
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 266
  Quote PaddleGirl Replybullet Posted: 31 May 2016 at 9:11pm
Originally posted by BrianP

Most rafting head injuries I've seen don't come from rocks but from other people and paddles inside the raft. I doubt that an average commercial customer can adequately gauge the risks involved and make an informed decision for themselves. They should almost always be in a helmet. I've taken enough headshots either guiding from a kayak or the back of a raft to know I'm sure as hell wearing one. We require all customers to wear it. Even if we didn't feel like they were necessary, it's just too easy for a judge to toss out your liability waiver when they look at the other 95% of the industry wearing helmets. The lawyers will scream negligence all the way to pay day.

Edit: I guess the Wenatchee is kind of a unique case. You'd have to try pretty damn hard to hit a rock. Still though, you can fu*k someone up pretty good by bashing heads together with heads and or paddles and it's mostly preventable with a helmet.


As far as the bolded goes, not true at low water. There are tons of rocks and customers tend to fall out from unexpected bumps. No one should swim snowblind at low water without a helmet, imo.
IP IP Logged Send Private Message
Slackkinhard
McNasty
McNasty
Avatar

Joined: 23 Sep 2014
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 268
  Quote Slackkinhard Replybullet Posted: 31 May 2016 at 9:32pm
We only run two rivers without requiring helmets for paying passengers....Wenatchee play run and the Methow....everything else helmet is mandatory. 
IP IP Logged Send Private Message
waterfire
Viener Schnitzel
Viener Schnitzel


Joined: 12 Jan 2016
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2
  Quote waterfire Replybullet Posted: 31 May 2016 at 11:30pm

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/1a/b3/b1/1ab3b13c7bf3b860accf0c1e54b41fc4.jpg

Edited by waterfire - 31 May 2016 at 11:39pm
IP IP Logged Send Private Message
irenen
Big Boofer
Big Boofer
Avatar

Joined: 24 Jul 2009
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 525
  Quote irenen Replybullet Posted: 01 Jun 2016 at 5:07am
I have a big gouge in a helmet from a rock in Snowblind at 7K. Anyone falling out of a raft backwards at the wrong time could hit it. Unlikely, I realize, but even on the Wenatchee I would always wear a helmet - I'm sure that hit would have required stitches without one and why risk TBI.
It's all fun and games until someone loses a paddle.
IP IP Logged Send Private Message Send Private Message
mprussak
Paddler
Paddler
Avatar

Joined: 10 Jun 2014
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 63
  Quote mprussak Replybullet Posted: 01 Jun 2016 at 5:23am
I don't sweat it too much if I forget, but I definitely try to wear a helmet every time, and even though our outfitter doesn't require them either I still tell customers I recommend it.

No matter how unlikely, sh*t happens. I got my kayak wedged against the bottom for a few seconds right in the middle of our rowdiest surf holes, it ain't deep...
Marek Prussak     206-465-2055
IP IP Logged Send Private Message Send Private Message
erikSANDSTROM
Big Boofer
Big Boofer
Avatar

Joined: 13 Nov 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 493
  Quote erikSANDSTROM Replybullet Posted: 01 Jun 2016 at 5:57am
Figure making them wear helmets would scare them more, making the trip that much scarier.
This river don't go to Aintry. You done taken a wrong turn.
IP IP Logged Send Private Message Send Private Message
Jed Hawkes
Rio Banditos
Rio Banditos
Avatar

Joined: 24 Aug 2008
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 814
  Quote Jed Hawkes Replybullet Posted: 01 Jun 2016 at 8:30am
"we've been soaking these rocks for thousands of years but they just don't seem to be getting any softer". I've always made my trips wear helmets and when they ask why they have to wear them and no one else does my reply has always been; Why don't you take your helmet off and go head butt your friend over there". This has always been met with an annoyed glare or a sudden understanding. Either way they get the point.
The line will become apparent
978-273-7723
IP IP Logged Send Private Message
paddlemonster
Rock Bumper
Rock Bumper
Avatar

Joined: 24 May 2014
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 28
  Quote paddlemonster Replybullet Posted: 01 Jun 2016 at 9:56am
I did some guiding on the Wenatchee for a company that did not offer helmets to the clients. As guides many of us had swam quite a few of the rapids and one or two of us bumped our heads hard enough to realize that it was probably a good idea to wear a helmet. That being said, we ran the river down to some pretty low levels (700 CFS) and had plenty of clients swim and never saw or heard of a single one bump their head. While it only takes one serious incident to make helmets feel like a necessity, for the most part the Wenatchee is fairly safe. At higher water there aren't many rocks. and at lower water it is slow enough that you likely wouldn't hit one very hard. I think most rafters are playing the odds in this case and considering the amount of people that go down that river versus the injury rate it just doesn't seem to be a necessary investment.
IP IP Logged Send Private Message
PaddleGirl
McNasty
McNasty
Avatar

Joined: 18 Oct 2010
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 266
  Quote PaddleGirl Replybullet Posted: 01 Jun 2016 at 10:25am
I think playing the odds like that is dangerous. Wearing helmets is one simple proactive thing we can do to protect people. All it takes is one bad accident...

I also think that "we've been doing it this way for 40 years" is backwards thinking. We know the risks and we should wear helmets. In my opinion. I did start this hoping to get more opinions.
IP IP Logged Send Private Message
paddlemonster
Rock Bumper
Rock Bumper
Avatar

Joined: 24 May 2014
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 28
  Quote paddlemonster Replybullet Posted: 01 Jun 2016 at 10:30am
I'm not saying I don't support your idea and I agree (as someone who wears their helmet), but I think convincing commercial operations to invest will be difficult. We as guides have had that conversation and it didn't go anywhere. 
IP IP Logged Send Private Message
PaddleGirl
McNasty
McNasty
Avatar

Joined: 18 Oct 2010
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 266
  Quote PaddleGirl Replybullet Posted: 01 Jun 2016 at 10:46am
Yes, it is proving to be very difficult. I'm trying to gauge just how self-righteous I'm being about this. One of our customers hit their head in snowblind last summer, but it wasn't serious. I always wear mine and it freaks out the guests sometimes, "why didn't we get one of those?"



Edited by PaddleGirl - 01 Jun 2016 at 6:45pm
IP IP Logged Send Private Message
paddlemonster
Rock Bumper
Rock Bumper
Avatar

Joined: 24 May 2014
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 28
  Quote paddlemonster Replybullet Posted: 01 Jun 2016 at 10:51am
Yeah...I would get the same question quite a bit. I always just said that with being on the river every day I was much more likely to hit my head trying to save someone or do something dangerous. You aren't being self righteous at all. Safety comes first in any sport. I'm always baffled when I see climbers or cyclists without helmets. I think the only way to pose it tactfully to a guiding company is to lay out the cost of one lawsuit versus the cost of buying helmets.
IP IP Logged Send Private Message
irenen
Big Boofer
Big Boofer
Avatar

Joined: 24 Jul 2009
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 525
  Quote irenen Replybullet Posted: 01 Jun 2016 at 3:33pm
Plus the personal cost of traumatic brain injury. I can't believe anybody rafts even the Wenatchee without a helmet.
It's all fun and games until someone loses a paddle.
IP IP Logged Send Private Message Send Private Message
megspk
Big Boofer
Big Boofer
Avatar

Joined: 05 Jul 2012
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 580
  Quote megspk Replybullet Posted: 02 Jun 2016 at 8:31am
Drool is not cool, helmets rule!

I have broken and cracked several helmets myself between bikes and boating. Rafts are like the ultimate bouncy house, I think helmets protect you from your fellow paddlers, paddles, oars, and rocks of you have a swim.
There was footage from a couple summers ago of a guy that got knocked out because he hit heads with another guest in the raft.   You never know....it's better to protect your head in the first place.
“A strong person and a waterfall always channel their own path.” -Unknown

IP IP Logged Send Private Message Send Private Message
Post Reply Post New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum