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dave
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  Quote dave Replybullet Topic: New Werner paddle?
    Posted: 15 Apr 2007 at 9:20am
Ok, so I'm going to buy a new Werner paddle. Money is no object, need carbon bent shaft, but witch one? The double diamond, or the player or? I've seen all you guys with both and some others. I'm also thinking 15 deg. offset.
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  Quote erikSANDSTROM Replybullet Posted: 15 Apr 2007 at 12:15pm
You will definitly want to check out the newest paddle from Wiener Paddles. Its a handfull. I think the model name is the "Grabber" or the "Choker." I can't remember.

Copy and Paste Biatches!

Or click biatches <-functionality added by james



Edited by James - 15 Apr 2007 at 1:09pm
This river don't go to Aintry. You done taken a wrong turn.
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  Quote James Replybullet Posted: 15 Apr 2007 at 1:05pm
I hate to say this but I am starting to think Werner Paddles need to be challenged... by the New H20 Paddles coming out of Canada and maybe some wooden models. I have heard good things and I personally think that although Werner has a good Product they need a good ding taken out of their budget to remind them that we are a competitive market place even though were in the backyard. It also kinda drives me crazy that just because they are located here we all stick to that brand and don't see many other options because shops are afraid of buying the competition and risking a loss. You all know I have a werner so it's not like I don't like the paddles, I just think there is other options out there and we don't see them because werner is in our backyard.

I might be looking for that next magic wand soon, and I doubt I will be looking at a Werner, I just think that having a different paddle populate our area will do more good for our community, and help diversify a pretty one sided market.


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dave
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  Quote dave Replybullet Posted: 15 Apr 2007 at 4:31pm
You mean the sho-gun?
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  Quote dave Replybullet Posted: 15 Apr 2007 at 4:33pm
I'm going to the SRK movie (Hotel Charlie 2?) tonight and going to check out some paddles.
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  Quote Ronin Replybullet Posted: 15 Apr 2007 at 6:42pm
I don't work for Werner, but it's the only paddle that I'd buy. I'm simply not willing to gamble with $300 to buy a paddle from another company whose products I have no personal experience with & whose willingness to backup their paddle is unknown. I made that mistake about 15 yrs ago when I bought a graphite paddle from an upstart local paddle company. I think it was called RGP or something like that. Anyway, after one short season, the blades delaminated and cracked to the point that it was no longer safe to use. I tried contacting the company, but they had so many complaints that they went out-of-business. It was an expensive lesson for me.    

There's a reason why retails stores stock only Werner paddles. They have good paddles and they back it up. If they didn't, stores wouldn't carry them.

With regards to your original post, I just had a discussion with a friend about the Zune so I edited your post a bit to reflect what he said about why I should spend $249 to buy the Zune instead of the iPod. I thought he was serious until he busted out laughing.

----

I hate to say this but I am starting to think (iPod) needs to be challenged... by the New (Zune) coming out of (Microsoft). I have heard good things and I personally think that although (iPod) has a good Product they need a good ding taken out of their budget to remind them that we are a competitive market place. It also kinda drives me crazy that we all stick to that brand and don't see many other options because shops are afraid of buying the competition and risking a loss. You all know I have a (iPod) so it's not like I don't like their (MP3 player), I just think there is other options out there.

I might be looking for that next (MP3 player) soon, and I doubt I will be looking at an (iPod), I just think that having a different (MP3 player) populate our area will do more good for our community, and help diversify a pretty one sided market.


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  Quote water wacko Replybullet Posted: 15 Apr 2007 at 9:26pm
I agree that Werner makes a good product (doesn't delaminate, takes abuse, etc), but I've had AT paddles for the last five or six years and have had great success. I paddle a fair amount 50-100 days a year average. I chose AT because of the larger grips and how the grips are oriented to the blade position (try one, you'll see). If you're coming from a Werner it will feel different. I do know Werner has excellent customer service. However, I've never had a problem dealing with AT either. AT's are slightly cheaper also.
"Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." ~Howard Thurman
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  Quote James Replybullet Posted: 16 Apr 2007 at 12:30am
Originally posted by Ronin

With regards to your original post, I just had a discussion with a friend about the Zune so I edited your post a bit to reflect what he said about why I should spend $249 to buy the Zune instead of the iPod. I thought he was serious until he busted out laughing.

----

I hate to say this but I am starting to think (iPod) needs to be challenged... by the New (Zune) coming out of (Microsoft). I have heard good things and I personally think that although (iPod) has a good Product they need a good ding taken out of their budget to remind them that we are a competitive market place. It also kinda drives me crazy that we all stick to that brand and don't see many other options because shops are afraid of buying the competition and risking a loss. You all know I have a (iPod) so it's not like I don't like their (MP3 player), I just think there is other options out there.

I might be looking for that next (MP3 player) soon, and I doubt I will be looking at an (iPod), I just think that having a different (MP3 player) populate our area will do more good for our community, and help diversify a pretty one sided market.


I am totally lost on the whole Ipod Zune deal, I think your just mocking me but I am not sure? I think we're entering the realm of double or triple post baiting and I am starting to get dizzy. All I know is that the "Ding from the Budget "comment was the bait and it is freakin in your tummy nice and yummy.

I'm just saying I think it would be nice to walk into a paddle shop and see more than a brand sitting on the wall or maybe 2- 3 at best. It would be pretty cool to see more out there. There are tastes too, some people just have different preferences. Ken Whiting swears by Aquabound and I have broken so many I gag when i think about them. I would be bummed if there was only the Ipod out there too! there is nothing wrong with competing for the highest level for your field, application, or product. Thats how Werners are created and formed. Test, Experience, Research Development, Production, Sales, Experience, and so on.... I am looking for others, not everyone has too though.

So in short I am not in your situation Ron. I have only paddled a few different paddles out there. Mainly because thats all there is out there locally, and of those werner is the best for me. And I know it is a totally personal thing. But I know this too. If I stopped on my first choice I would not have tried Werner and until I have tried all the different paddles out there, how could I honestly say that werner is the only thing I will use or buy. I can't, and I although I want to try every paddle out there... I know that is kinda far fetched and it would take like 15 + years to know everything about them all. So in the mean time I would like to try more than just a couple brands.

Now I am not going to do the tit tat tally wack <~ what is that? but before you edit my little posts don't just cut important stuff that pretty much changes my whole statement and changes the whole perspective of what I said. The whole point of my statement is Selection benefits the community, I can't comment on what your trying to get at cause I am not sure, but based on your last post I think it was the opposite of what I am going for.

I say any paddles that are worthy contenders should be available or tested by our region and that can't happen if the marketplace is not open to new competition. I want an open minded marketplace, you are suggesting a close minded one and that is a bummer because that's just not how I swing baby yea!

~J


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  Quote joshcrossman Replybullet Posted: 16 Apr 2007 at 8:43am
i tested the h2o paddles for a day up in ottawa last summer and liked them, but they were pretty heavy.   there was a little flutter with some big strokes, but i think that if i had a bit more time to get used to the grip (it's a different shape) that might go away a little.     but it is pretty heavy.   check them out, but i ended up with a double diamond.
i like it when it rains
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  Quote jondufay Replybullet Posted: 16 Apr 2007 at 9:06am
dude, i hear that harmony and AB both make bomber paddles.
ahh, f--- it dude, lets go boating...
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  Quote dave Replybullet Posted: 16 Apr 2007 at 9:07am
Ummmm, hmmmm, now I'm very confused. I don't think an ipod will work as a paddle. O did I mention that money isn't a factor for me?
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  Quote James Replybullet Posted: 16 Apr 2007 at 9:33am
If money is no factor then have some wicked wood paddle made. Do like something ultra light and rigid to your taste. Then you have flavor, design, sustainable materials, and natural strength.

I want to start trying wooden paddles but there really are'nt any around in the shops or rivers to try. And just hefting up some cash to try something new ain't gonna happen.

~J

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  Quote Ryan Replybullet Posted: 16 Apr 2007 at 10:39am
I have a carbon werner bent shaft player 15 degree offset and love it.  It is not a foam core as I've heard rumors of them getting water in them and I didn't want to mess with that.

The 15 degree really helped me nail cartwheels and bow stalls.  It took me about 5 minutes to adjust from a 45 degree bent shaft.

Although money isn't a factor don't forget to get your AW member discount.  I know our local Seattle boat shop (SRK) honors this discount.  And if your not a member you should be.... money bags.


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  Quote dave Replybullet Posted: 16 Apr 2007 at 12:24pm
Ya, I was looking at the player or the double diamond. I'll have to check out the player.
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  Quote dave Replybullet Posted: 16 Apr 2007 at 1:29pm
What about the Stikine for an all around paddle. Unfortunatly no one carries any 15 deg. paddles that I can try. I wonder why? 15 deg. just seems like the perfect angle for forward strokes and play paddling, you dont have to slip the paddle around in your hands and it's easier on the wrists, plus the only thing a 45 or 90 is good for is the wind. I don't think we need to worry about wind on the river!
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  Quote PowWrangler Replybullet Posted: 16 Apr 2007 at 1:34pm
I prefer the feel of AT's overall, but they do have a better chance of catastrophically breaking than Werners do.  Saw Hotel Charlie last night and saw about ten broken AT's (ya, those were off of HUGE drops, I know). 
 
Woody Paddles out of Colorado are pretty tough and custom made...a little more effort to get one, but worth it.
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  Quote dave Replybullet Posted: 16 Apr 2007 at 2:12pm
James, are you useing a Werner Player? I'm considering foam core or not foam core, and the Player is lighter with no foam core, plus its profile is really thin like I'm used to with my white lightning.


Edited by dave - 16 Apr 2007 at 2:15pm
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  Quote Tobin Replybullet Posted: 16 Apr 2007 at 2:35pm
AT is a great paddle,, and they sell them off the shelf with 10 degree feathers.  I broke mine in the middle ( the epoxy joint failed)  it was repaired by AT, but I had to pay shipping down there and wait 3 weeks.
    I really like the bends in the shaft that arent as severs as Werner. the grip just feels more secure.
 
Sure?
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  Quote dave Replybullet Posted: 16 Apr 2007 at 2:36pm






There is a wood paddle and then there is the Werner, I will stick with Werner for now, looks like James is useing a Player?
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  Quote Ryan Replybullet Posted: 16 Apr 2007 at 2:39pm
i'm pretty sure he uses the one larger than the player.
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  Quote dave Replybullet Posted: 16 Apr 2007 at 2:43pm
That would be the Side kick?
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  Quote jalmquist Replybullet Posted: 16 Apr 2007 at 2:50pm
"...plus the only thing a 45 or 90 is good for is the wind". 
 
I cordially disagree.  Or at least want to add some insight... 
 
High angle power & control strokes are easier with some blade feather.  With minimal feather you end up cocking your control hand wrist forward when you bend your elbow on that side for a vertical off-side stroke.  That's why you see racers using paddles with significant feather.  A similar vertical stroke on your control hand side doesn't affect the off-side wrist the same as the shaft is allowed to pivot in that off-side hand. 
 
Of course, having blade feather makes certain things - like stalls or off-side stern draws - a bit more challenging. 
 
I'm not saying one is better than the other - it's all a matter of preference.  Just clarifying that there is rational for feathered blades beyond the somewhat unsubstantiated "wind argument". 
 
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  Quote James Replybullet Posted: 16 Apr 2007 at 2:50pm
Powerhouse I believe
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  Quote James Replybullet Posted: 16 Apr 2007 at 3:07pm
Uh... I would also say there are alot of other negatives with both also.

It is totally personal preference. Lower Feathers on creeks are more prone to shaft breaks, but less prone to hard pulling or shifting on entry with waterfalls. Higher feathered blades allow you to back deck roll with about half the amount of wrist cock to keep the blade face open. As you lower the feather you have to compensate more and more with your wrists.

ching ching
~J
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  Quote dave Replybullet Posted: 16 Apr 2007 at 3:26pm
Oooh boy, I'm cornfused
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