Professor Paddle: New Werner paddle? vanlinelogistics.com Seattle Washington (WA) Warehousing & Order Fulfillment vanlinelogistics.com Seattle Washington (WA) Warehousing & Order Fulfillment vanlinelogistics.com Seattle Washington (WA) Commercial Relocation vanlinelogistics.com Warehousing & Order Fulfillment
Professor Paddle Professor Paddle
  RegisterRegister  LoginLogin
Home Calendar Forum FSBO Gallery PPages Reviews Rivers Links
  Active TopicsActive Topics  Display List of Forum MembersMemberlist  Search The ForumSearch
Whitewater Forum
 Professor Paddle : General : Whitewater Forum
Message Icon Topic: New Werner paddle? Post Reply Post New Topic
<< Prev Page  of 2
Author Message
erikSANDSTROM
Big Boofer
Big Boofer
Avatar

Joined: 13 Nov 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 493
  Quote erikSANDSTROM Replybullet Posted: 16 Apr 2007 at 4:37pm
You cant beat my bamboo and spackle core.
This river don't go to Aintry. You done taken a wrong turn.
IP IP Logged Send Private Message Send Private Message
dave
Master Poster
Master Poster
Avatar
D4

Joined: 29 Apr 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4226
  Quote dave Replybullet Posted: 16 Apr 2007 at 8:26pm
Ok, one last question before I order my blade. How come James has a river running paddle and not a play paddle. I noticed the play paddles have downturned blades and the river runners have straight blades. Whats the difference and for me what would be better. (being an all around paddler)
Nomad
IP IP Logged Send Private Message
Courtney
Big Boofer
Big Boofer
Avatar
Whitewater,sea kayaking, snowboarding, backpacking.

Joined: 22 Mar 2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 662
  Quote Courtney Replybullet Posted: 16 Apr 2007 at 8:50pm
Dave,
 
Having worked for Werner I feel I should chime in.  The down turned blades help with different types of play moves that come from the side of the boat such as cartwheels, etc....  They don't effect the river running though so if you're on a debate and like to play alot you can't go wrong with a play blade.  The bigger blades will give you more power at a slower cadence and the mid sized blades will give power too but a little less at a higher cadence.  Doing long day river runs the mid sized blades are nicer in my opinion since they don't fatigue one's arms as quick.  The difference between AT's bent shaft and Werner's is that Werner has a neutral bend meaning that your hand in in line with the shaft at the mid point and the neck of the blade making it easier to switch from straight to bent.  The AT bend is set off from the center of the shaft.  As for blade size it's entirely up to you.  However the Double Diamond and the Player are to very different paddles and feels very different in the water.  The DD has a floaty feel which some like and some don't.  It's also a play blade and made to pop back to the surface more quickly.  The Player is a standard fiberglass or carbon blade with no foam core.  If you call Werner and ask to borrow a paddle they may let you.  They used to when I was there.  I use a 194 Player all carbon bent shaft with a 30 degree feather, small shaft.  You're welcome to try it sometime if you want but only when I'm on the river too.  I won't loan it out.  By the way, feather angle is all personal preference.  Playboaters usually like less feather and river runner's more, racers even more.  Hope that helps some.  It was a quick sum up of things.
 
Courtney      
IP IP Logged Send Private Message Send Private Message
Ryan
Big Boofer
Big Boofer
Avatar

Joined: 27 Jun 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 693
  Quote Ryan Replybullet Posted: 16 Apr 2007 at 8:57pm
Dave, same goes for me on borrowing the paddle.  I'm hoping to get out on a after work run this week.  I'll be out of town this weekend through the next though.

If the Green comes up that is my first choice.  Second is the Sky.  MM as a last option... if it comes up. :)
IP IP Logged Send Private Message Send Private Message
Guests
Guest
Guest

  Quote Guests Replybullet Posted: 17 Apr 2007 at 5:52am
I don't have time to read this whole thread so sorry if I repeat something. This is in response to Water Wacko's post:

AT's are the most broken paddles on the market. I have seen 6 of my friends break different models over the past year in a variety of different ways. Sorry, but although these paddles feel pretty nice, only buy them if you feel like flushing $300 and going through a long, annoying warranty process. You might get lucky and have an AT that doesn't break on you but that is a long shot.
IP IP Logged Send Private Message
Courtney
Big Boofer
Big Boofer
Avatar
Whitewater,sea kayaking, snowboarding, backpacking.

Joined: 22 Mar 2005
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 662
  Quote Courtney Replybullet Posted: 17 Apr 2007 at 6:12am
IP IP Logged Send Private Message Send Private Message
dave
Master Poster
Master Poster
Avatar
D4

Joined: 29 Apr 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4226
  Quote dave Replybullet Posted: 17 Apr 2007 at 8:14am
Hi Courtney, thanks for the beta, really helps me understand more about the paddles before I commit to one certain blade. It's almost like you need to have two paddles, one for river running and one for play. I'm just concerned about the foam core being dammaged if I slam it around to much, and I do tend to do that. So I guess it's down to faom core or not foam core?
Nomad
IP IP Logged Send Private Message
Chuck e fresh
Master Poster
Master Poster
Avatar
Post Jester - Round Tres

Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: -362
  Quote Chuck e fresh Replybullet Posted: 17 Apr 2007 at 12:10pm
I like to go paddle........paddle good
There's no such word as can't!so stop making excuses!!!!
IP IP Logged Send Private Message Send Private Message
dave
Master Poster
Master Poster
Avatar
D4

Joined: 29 Apr 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4226
  Quote dave Replybullet Posted: 17 Apr 2007 at 1:07pm
Yes I do aggree Chuck.
Nomad
IP IP Logged Send Private Message
dave
Master Poster
Master Poster
Avatar
D4

Joined: 29 Apr 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4226
  Quote dave Replybullet Posted: 18 Apr 2007 at 8:24am
Thanks for letting me try the Player Ryan, I will be seriously considering that paddle. I took to it like James Cadilac eating gas!
Nomad
IP IP Logged Send Private Message
Larry
Super Looper
Super Looper
Avatar
Mr. Generosity

Joined: 27 Mar 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 193
  Quote Larry Replybullet Posted: 18 Apr 2007 at 9:19am
Two paddles is the way too go. I use my AT for river running, creeking, big water, etc. But the paddle I swear by and can't live without is the Werner DD. When I broke it I went and bought another the next day.
 
Dave, I am pretty hard on my paddle and have not had any problem with the blade or the foam core of the DD. When it broke, it was the shaft that went, and not the on the seam. I had hit it on a rock and put a small gouge in it and thats where it finally broke.


Edited by Larry - 18 Apr 2007 at 9:28am
IP IP Logged Send Private Message Send Private Message
Chuck e fresh
Master Poster
Master Poster
Avatar
Post Jester - Round Tres

Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: -362
  Quote Chuck e fresh Replybullet Posted: 18 Apr 2007 at 9:48am

I agree, the more paddles the better. Same with boats, I'd like to have a different helmet for everyday of the week too. I just wish I new what the different colors did for my technique..

There's no such word as can't!so stop making excuses!!!!
IP IP Logged Send Private Message Send Private Message
water wacko
Master Poster
Master Poster
Avatar
Team Jackson

Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2137
  Quote water wacko Replybullet Posted: 18 Apr 2007 at 10:04am
Dave, y'all,

SRK carries AB, Werner, AT, Sawyer (wood paddles), and... I can't remember the last. I know that Jake ordered a sweet custom wood paddle that was a bent shaft. I don't know where he got it from. Maybe ask him. AT's the bomb.
"Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." ~Howard Thurman
IP IP Logged Send Private Message Send Private Message
PowWrangler
PP Junkie
PP Junkie
Avatar

Joined: 04 Jul 2006
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 793
  Quote PowWrangler Replybullet Posted: 18 Apr 2007 at 12:18pm
If the wood bent shaft was yellow, it was a Woody's. 
IP IP Logged Send Private Message Send Private Message
AWETONE
Viener Schnitzel
Viener Schnitzel
Avatar

Joined: 13 Apr 2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6
  Quote AWETONE Replybullet Posted: 18 Apr 2007 at 12:19pm

AT paddles break-e-break. AB paddles suck-e-suck.

IP IP Logged Send Private Message
dave
Master Poster
Master Poster
Avatar
D4

Joined: 29 Apr 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4226
  Quote dave Replybullet Posted: 18 Apr 2007 at 12:33pm
Ya, the Double Diamond is looking like the canidate of choice right now. I'm thinking 20deg. feather 197 length bent shaft DD.
20 deg, I think will be just about right for me, 15 was just a hair to flat and 30 was just a bit to much when trying to bow stall.
Nomad
IP IP Logged Send Private Message
FLUID
WW Industry
WW Industry
Avatar

Joined: 15 Jan 2007
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 276
  Quote FLUID Replybullet Posted: 18 Apr 2007 at 3:55pm
I've been doing a lot of paddle demoing lately.  and would like to confirm a couple things without beating this conversation to death. 
 
 #1 Jon's absalutely right about feather degrees.  A 45 degree paddle will give you a wider and easer range of vertical strokes while not breaking your wrist because 45 degrees is kind of a natural ergo twist in our stroke.  a lesser degree will improve some strokes for play boating but make others harder. it's a comprimise.  I wouldn't go below 30. 
 
 #2 Lower feathers on creeks are not prone to shaft breaks. shaft breaks are human error or factory defects. you eather bang your paddle on something or you don't.  you could have a o- 45 and if you paddle nice you might not break it. 
 
 
 #3  Once again with waterfall entries you eaither take your stroke or you miss it.  feathering doesn't affect how hard you pull. waterfalls are  about stroke timing and boat angle.  If you like to creek don't go below 30 degrees for the simple fact of having higher vertical efficient strokes.  it's more a technique issue. 
 
#4 If your backdeck rolling on your right it doesn't matter because your control hand stays the same and should bend your wrist the same from a 15-45 and should be easier beacause you have more presure on both blades. if your trying to off side backdeck roll a lower degree is easer because most of us are right hand control and alows us to use our left wrist more freely. 
 
Werner does make some of the best paddles out there but what ever you get learn how to use it efficiently.  
 
 
 
 
IP IP Logged Send Private Message Send Private Message
erikSANDSTROM
Big Boofer
Big Boofer
Avatar

Joined: 13 Nov 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 493
  Quote erikSANDSTROM Replybullet Posted: 18 Apr 2007 at 3:59pm
I love the way I can grip my Wiener. The long stiff shaft is just the right shape!!
This river don't go to Aintry. You done taken a wrong turn.
IP IP Logged Send Private Message Send Private Message
dave
Master Poster
Master Poster
Avatar
D4

Joined: 29 Apr 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4226
  Quote dave Replybullet Posted: 18 Apr 2007 at 8:39pm
Thats pretty funny Eric! But, I was talking about paddles?
Nomad
IP IP Logged Send Private Message
dave
Master Poster
Master Poster
Avatar
D4

Joined: 29 Apr 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4226
  Quote dave Replybullet Posted: 19 Apr 2007 at 2:48pm
I was looking at a new boat too. Looks perfect for me, the RECOIL by PYRANHA. Player and river runner.
Nomad
IP IP Logged Send Private Message
Guests
Guest
Guest

  Quote Guests Replybullet Posted: 19 Apr 2007 at 4:36pm
Just saw another AT2 break today.Two weeks old and it broke on the New River Dries.
IP IP Logged Send Private Message
Guests
Guest
Guest

  Quote Guests Replybullet Posted: 19 Apr 2007 at 4:40pm
Also, Fluid...false on the creeking thing. You can creek with a zero degree if you have the technique for it. If you are going above 30 degrees and you aren't boating slalom, you have too much feather imho.
IP IP Logged Send Private Message
James
Admin
Admin
Avatar
Sum Dum Guy

Joined: 31 Dec 2004
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 3595
  Quote James Replybullet Posted: 19 Apr 2007 at 5:34pm
Here is my thoughts on creeking with a Zero degree paddle, all my perspectives and feelings from using a lower feathered paddle vs 45's.

First off not many would like it so I am not suggesting that it be the hot ticket. It could in fact be more negative than creeking with a feathered paddle. I learned to boat/roll etc without a feather, so I creek without one too. Just my taste

There is no question in my mind on whether or not shaft breaks are more prone with lower feathered paddles.  I have my own experiences and thats just how I have come to my views on the fact that lowering the feather increases your chance for breakage.  If your paddling a lower feather you have less room for error because niether side of the blade with give on entry. So you can bust your face easier, rack the rib cage harder and break shafts easier also it all depends on how hard you hit and the strength of that shaft.

The second thing to creeking with a lower feather is impact flutter on the paddle when entering from a water fall, now granted I lack the experience on super high stuff that this really comes into play on, but the experiences I have had would certainly still apply just in a larger magnitude on those big drops. When you tuck up for impact and set your paddle to your side, a lower feathered paddle has both blades pointed together vs having one off set, This decreases the amount of flutter that I have felt between the different paddle angles I have used.

Maybe I am totally different, or perhaps I am doing my backdeck roll wrong, but when I try to do it with a higher angled blade it is easier. Zero degree is the most cocked on the wrist for me. I would not be able to formulate a good explanation for this with out two under water camera's, a few water proof strobe lights, a case of Rasputin, several heavy diving weights and 5 feet of green garden hose without the fittings on the end!

James
IP IP Logged Send Private Message Send Private Message
dave
Master Poster
Master Poster
Avatar
D4

Joined: 29 Apr 2005
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 4226
  Quote dave Replybullet Posted: 19 Apr 2007 at 9:21pm
and a partridge in a pear tree.......
Nomad
IP IP Logged Send Private Message
Will
Paddler
Paddler
Avatar

Joined: 09 Nov 2006
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 58
  Quote Will Replybullet Posted: 20 Apr 2007 at 5:51pm
My 2 cents:
 
Buy a DD foam core. I have one, its all I use. Not one complaint. I beat it up real good and it still looks new. I never heard anyone have problems with water in the foam. You would have to do some pretty serious damage for that to occur. The foam core blades have a super tough edge. I think its Dynel. I think the foam core AT paddles have something similar. Whatever it is makes it a whole hell of a lot tougher than anything else that is laid up composite. Wood is good too. Never used one but I hear Woodies are good.
 
 
IP IP Logged Send Private Message Send Private Message
<< Prev Page  of 2
Post Reply Post New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum