edit: felt the need to delete. its not my deal.


Edited by ashleygoesdisco - 06 Jun 2007 at 6:36pm

mike, you still in bham? still have not got to paddle with you, but would like to someday.

Look, I don't want to lecture anyone.  I'm just trying to understand how people look at risky situations (for their own skill level) and the 1% risk thing was just an example to simplify the discussion.  I think it is super cool that there are people in the world that are willing to do amazing sporting events and accomplish things that I would never consider.  I'm super stoked about that also.  I am the first to say that I don't know jack about class V boating but a class V boater is still making a decision about risk on a particular run (albeit with more skill than I'll ever have).

When I watch a Twitch video, I think it is super cool.  But, what I didn't realize (until someone told me) is all of the safety those guys set, the dummies, empty boats, etc. that they send over the falls before hand to gather more information, scouting, studying, etc.  To me, it is still crazy and I wouldn't do it but they are doing tons of things to mitigate risk and then they are making some decision that is right for themselves.  Unfortunately, to the average person, it looks like they are just heading out and hucking themselves over the falls.

The purpose of my question is simply to understand whether everyone is congratulating someone and celebrating the outcome (which everyone thinks is cool) or you are also celebrating the way in which they achieved the outcome.  I consider myself, in general, rather risk averse, some bad decisions aside.  I'd really like to understand how others look at it.  That is all.

And, I'll reiterate, once again.  I am the first person to defend someone's right to whatever they want to do with their lives.  Their lives, their choices.


Edited by arnobarno - 06 Jun 2007 at 12:17pm

This is radical... holy Mackerel ....

I can't believe that some many people have so much to say about this one. I could totally be wrong here folks but if I know Jake, trash talk is what this whole thread was about to begin with.... He baited all you monkeys... and .... now hes baiting me!

Ask Dave if he is more scarred when he is soloing 50 feet off the ground or 5000 feet. He will respond... Whats the difference ... You fall you die. Ask him what the ratio of risk divided by the compound percentage of indigenous caucasion african american males living in or around lake Titicaca is... He will not know what the heck your talking about just like I don't with half the posts up above. I love the internet.

Stay right. 

I have paddled in 4 countries and 20 states. I have never before seen a community applaud an act that demonstrates disregard for the dangers of the river. Not only that, but in this thread, people criticized those who have legitimate concerns about safety.

So I give up trying to convince people. Bye, PP.

Well, I for one am not trying convince anyone of anything - I'm merely posting repetitive and long-winded comments trying to understand how people in the community think about risk.

I don't know whether the community is applauding or not.  If you read the first 9 postings on this thread they are "congrats, well done, etc."  Now, deep down those folks could be thinking exactly what you said James, "I still think you're nuts and I wouldn't do it" but no one said that.  And, many people are afraid to post anything for fear of personal attacks.  Sadly that is the nature of a forum like this - even though unlike most virtual forums many of the people here actually know each other in real life.  The assumption is that silence = consent but often it is just the opposite.

Just as an FYI, there is a bit of interesting information about this section of river up at American Whitewater for those that are interested.

http://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/River/detail/id/3585/

This thread has so inspired me, I think I'm going to go have a safety meeting.  

DUDE. I called him because I needed a PFD on Sunday, and he was like, oh, I'm running Tumwater, bla bla bla, and my brain didn't put two and two together until just about...um... now. I was like, oh, no biggie, have fun. Oh wait. Tumwater was spewing chunks that day. OOPS. Good thing I made sure he had more than one PFD before I took one... Crazy guy that one is.

Kudos to those who have the mental ability to do things like that. I'm still working on Boulder Drop?

edit: PADDLER STATUS?!


Edited by ashleygoesdisco - 06 Jun 2007 at 9:48pm

Ah, we've come 360 now.  People can bait and people can have fun but in the end safety is serious.  You can mock jblum. ktw and I and have fun, that is all good. 

But, as Mom always said, it is always funny until you poke someone's eye out (with that rebar at the bottom of Eagle Falls).

Yeah, I filmed Rob that day and will be posting that footage soon too!  The day before I ran Tumwater with him and believe that is why I felt comfortabe running Eagle Falls.  Running Chaos a 12K was Eagle Falls times ten as far as I'm concerned! My point being, at those kind of  flows running safety is the equivalent of puting an air bag in a jet plane... Pointless..  I looked at Eagle Falls, realized you could sneak the entrance and the last two drops were just GIANT waves, with one big flushy hole...  Like I said, worst case scenario, lose a boat, and to be honest I wasn't even worried about that.  I would like to say to all the whiney safety dudes that at lower flow I would not go near Eagle Falls without safety,  I have had to rope someone out of the first drop of Eagle Falls and I'm pretty sure if I didn't he would have never swam out... Believe it or not, I'm a pretty conservative boater and a nazi about safety.  I just know when a rapid is flushing, it's flushing... OH yeah and if I go out and kill myself running a rapid or skiing in the backcountry I think I should be able to do just that without a bunch of boneheads trying to criticize my decision.  So one more time, shut the hell up!

Oh and about the re-bar, I have scene that rapid with barely any water in it and also talked to someone who has ran it every which way upsidedown and right side up, I won't mention any names (ROB MCKIBBON) and he can't seem to find it.  I'm going to tell him to swim over it at super low flows this summer and we'll see if we can find the re-bar for you guys.  At 12,000cfs,  re-bar ten feet below me was the least of my worries... I'm done