How was the Elaho?

So what are the recommended levels for Fear Canyon?

So what did you end up boating?

the main difference between AW  & the opposition -- "the folks in squamish" -- is that AW is a organization with salaried employees & a very vocal/active/affluent constituency. they are in the business of organizing effective opposition. the "shrill" & "ineffective" opposition to the ashlu project are, one, tiny in number, two, non-financially backe, &, three, vastly inexperienced at mounting effective campaigns against government-backed corporations. 

sorry about your bumpy ride to the play run. but to those of us who have been passionate about the ashlu for years, an "improved, maintained road" & "guaranteed flows" in late summer (those are already guaranteed by nature) are the LAST THING we are interested in.  our involvement in this issue had nothing to do with our selfish kayaking or ease-of-shuttle interests. the "if you can't beat em, join em" mentality that you are backing was never part of an activist stance. access & flows on the ashlu were just fine for the past eternity.

my bro bryan more or less took a year-long time-out from his life to oppose a dam being built in that special canyon, not because it affects kayaking, but because it's simply the wrong place for a development of that nature & because the Bill 30 loophole -- the Ashlu Bill -- has created the current free-for-all on hydro licenses. (when's the last time you checked the list of current hydro proposals in BC? it is sickening.)  bryan's efforts are the reason you ever heard anything about this issue in the first place. for you to suggest that he should have, as an ACTIVIST, grabbed ankle & turned his attention to securing concessions so that you wouldn't have to go into 4-wheel on your way to the Play run is not only laughable, but a slap in the face. 

I was up at the Ashlu with Leif and I guess I saw a much different picture.  The Canyon looks a lot like the drive from Vancouver to Whistler, a giant scar on what was a beautiful place.  Rugged roads are a good thing in my opinion.  It's what keeps the crowds away from the river, I hate not making it into an eddy because it is full of other people.  I like being there with a small group and the hike in/out made it feel like a true wilderness experience.  Damns are also horrible in my opinion because they prevent salmon etc from returning to their spawning grounds and aslo change the erosion etc patterns.  I just hope that in the future, B.C. will hold on to it's wildness because that is what makes it a place worth visiting.

Edited by justin - 28 Aug 2007 at 10:23am

The weekend I spent boating in BC was awesome. You get out to the middle of nowhere, thinking, 'there better be a #%@&ing river out here'. No gas for miles, you sure better bring a lot of food with you, cause there isn't anywhere to buy it. The river isn't next to a highway, or completely swamped with commercial raft trips. Being paddlers, we get access to some amazing places, because we float down the river to them. Not everyone can do that, and it's maybe a little bit selfish, but I like to think that I am one of a few people that have seen certain places, because I've taken the time to learn the skills that get me down more dangerous rivers than the average joe with an inner tube. Now, whitewater parks are great, its nice to have a spot where you can get your freestyle fix, without worrying about shuttle. The Wenatchee Festival Weekend is GREAT. I like being able to put on the river, knowing that there will be other people around, the entire time. But part of the thrill of paddling, for me, is being out in the middle of the woods, away from most of the roads, with a few other people, exploring the river. One of these days, I hope to be fortunate enough to participate in an expedition trip, maybe even a first decent, the thought of all the risk associated with those scares me, quite a bit, but that's why I'm a boater. Perhaps this is why I like the White Salmon so much, because if you time your run right, you won't see any other boaters, and its quite peaceful to know you have the river to yourself, and there wont be cars driving by honking their horn at your yellow boat.

JMHO.


Edited by ashleygoesdisco - 28 Aug 2007 at 11:04am

It would help if  you guys actually read what I wrote.  While the project is unfortunate, I wanted to make the point that access is not an issue.  There were quite a few locals that said that it wasn't possible to get up there, and is seems that there is quite a bit of incorrect access information floating around.  We do owe a great deal to whomever went up and cleared out the slide on the way to the play run put in.

 

I think a few posts made my point.  Time to move on, guys.  The project is being built - you might as well appreciate the improved access and move on to try to fight the next project.  Some of the comments here remind me of the local guy we spoke to who said he was so angry about the project he wasn't planning to boat the Ashlu again.  Attitudes like this do nothing to help raise public awareness of these issues, and are rather similar to how 3 year olds try to get their way.  While I have no basis for knowing, I'd guess this is why the festival has been canceled this year.  I think some folks think I like the fact a dam is being built - this is, of course, not the case.  I guess I open myself up to insults and name calling by being a bit to pragmatic about things - silly me.

 

I think that, in moving on, there are a few lessons to be learned.  One significant lesson should be to argue against a project on solid facts.  Doing a Google search demonstrates that the opponents to the project frequently repeated several inaccuracies.  One is that the project would destroy fish runs.  This is, of course, not true.  There are no salmon runs due to the violence of the canyon (there are trout in the upper river areas, I am told).  Second, there have been numerous claims that the project would destroy old growth forests.  Of course, the valley has been logged, and there is certainly no old growth anywhere near the existing roads.  Finally, people have referred to the project as a dam, when in fact; it is a run-of-river diversion with no water storage.  None of these issues justify the dam, but using inaccurate facts as a means to stop the project hinders those efforts.  You don’t get credibility with the public unless you have your facts straight.

 

There are something like 400-500 proposed micro-hydro projects in BC.  There are this many because the permitting for these small projects is vastly easier than a larger project.  While conservation is important, there will be the requirement for new projects.  Ultimately, when it comes to hydro, I believe that the e

The people who cleared the landslide where a bunch of east coast boaters who rented trucks and winches and spent their week up there clearing the road.  We do owe them some thanks.  I wasn't trying to start an argument, I was just posting my opinion.

Ledcor mo fos

Hey guys, try to remember we are all on the same side.   It might be hard to tell by reading this thread, but I suspect Lief and Todd agree on more than than they disagree on.  (i.e. both of them were against the project and think something needs to be done in order to change the current system)

Edited by tradguy2 - 28 Aug 2007 at 1:32pm

Nice Leif. ToddG spent some time on that response. Be proud!

I second the *yawn* sentiment.

OK, fair enough .. benefit of doubt given .. & i'll back off after this, i promise ..

BUT.. it's really hard to stomach the accusation that the opposition was so "shrill" & "ineffective" because they/we didn't push for more "concessions" as AW would have done.  (& again, I'm just responding to what's written in the original post)  There is no equivalent to AW in canada. What little opposition there was, was grassroots as hell & born out of the whitewater community .. regular people with jobs & families & lives outside of activism.  Apples to apples --  you can't compare the loss of the Ashlu to any of AW's "wins" & then wag yer finger at the Squamish locals for doing it all wrong .. especially when the government-corporate steamroller has the power to re-write legislation to make shit happen .. and then tell us it's "time to move on", enjoy the new improved road access, suckers. 

Also for true "effectiveness", I'd like to point out that, as has been noted, the Ashlu should & is being leveraged as a wake-up call --  the "warning" that many many many more amazing watersheds are on the auction block.     That a coalition of independent & business groups from across several industries has formed in the wake of the Ashlu loss to raise awareness  to the Bill 30 mess .... That bryan's 49MW has been accepted into about a half-dozen film festivals (including this onehttp://www.planetinfocus.org/), & is being duped & distributed on dvd suggests that maybe the opposition's "effectiveness" is just getting started & that the goal is much bigger than just the Ashlu.