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water wacko
Master Poster
Team Jackson
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
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   Posted: 06 Jun 2009 at 8:51am |
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One other thing no has has mentioned is that super linear plastic is not as strong as x-link plastic. I understand up to 6 times stronger. Newer boats use less plastic, lightening the weight, and reducing the overall strength. That's why you see 30 yo RPM's still floating. And everyone used to use x-link. Now I think Jackson is the only one. Although, the 'classic' Jackson's use super linear.
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"Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." ~Howard Thurman
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Travisimo
Big Boofer
Joined: 17 Jun 2005
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Posted: 08 Jun 2009 at 12:26pm |
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Okay, I've asked plenty of people what "crosslink" really means.
ALL boats are crosslinked or they would fall apart, the very definition of plastic is being crosslinked.
When polymer chains are linked together by crosslinks, they lose some
of their ability to move as individual polymer chains. For example, a
liquid polymer (where the chains are freely flowing) can be turned into
a "solid" or "gel" by crosslinking the chains together.
(from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross_link)
What is the actual difference between the "old" and "new" plastics?
I've never been able to find anything online... Should also mention I would really like to know the actual blend because it would help me weld them better... Is it proprietary and no boat manufacturer wants to give away the blend?
Edited by etive - 08 Jun 2009 at 12:35pm
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H2O please
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kurle
McNasty
Joined: 02 Sep 2007
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Posts: 281
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Posted: 08 Jun 2009 at 12:42pm |
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my buddy has a jackson super fun with a big ol crack in the bottom. we now call his boat a soft shell kayak because of how weak the plastic is. he uses gorilla tape and a hair dryer. its been holding on the wenatchee, but i dunno about runs with lots of rocks.
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jP
Rio Banditos
Diddle Fuerte Diablo !
Joined: 15 Oct 2005
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Posts: 4404
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Posted: 08 Jun 2009 at 3:32pm |
Originally posted by water wacko
Newer boats use less plastic, lightening the weight, and reducing the overall strength. That's why you see 30 yo RPM's still floating. And everyone used to use x-link.
-just to clarify the figurative nature of Bret's post ( he didn't literally mean that the RPM is a 30 yr old design, it's not.) The RPM was introduced in the mid-late 90's. Someone else around here, Maybe Bill Petty, could confirm the actual year it hit the market.
Staying on topic, it would be nice if a kayak manufacturer could make a repairable plastic. Such a repairable boat with a kit and instructions on how to really make solid, lasting, watertight repairs (Fiberglass/Kevlar/S-Glass, ect. may be more prone to breaking, but they are infinitely repairable in a seamless, homogenous way) would be worth $2,000 IMO.
Thourough cleaning before any repair job will always be critical to its sucess.
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Tobin
Forum Moderator
Joined: 14 Sep 2005
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Posts: 1845
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Posted: 08 Jun 2009 at 4:19pm |
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Kayak makers keep their plastic compound under lock and key, not that a chemist couldn't figure it out, mostly to escape scrutiny.
Kayakers will research the different types and bitch that a maker doesn't use one type over another, also if they change suppliers they don't have to deal with the testing process and blame if warranties come up.
It is not cross linked that makes Jackson's 'unweldable' it the nature of the polymer they use that it is essentially tempered in the molding process.
By welding it you de temper the plastic and even if you are using the same type of plastic it will not bond.
Wow, I just bored myself!
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Sure?
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RPMMAX
Splat Wheeler
Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Location: United States
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Posts: 141
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Posted: 08 Jun 2009 at 6:13pm |
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After I read some of the comments I looked in my records, and in 1995 and 1996 I purchased two boats.
At that time we were giver a choice of linnear or crossed linked for each of the boats. The suppliers always maintained that the crosslinked was stronger but harder to weld. I ordered both of those boats in linear because I had intended to do self support trips and may be able to weld them by inserting them to a fire. I still have these boats. Neither are cracked.
Bill Petty
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RPMMAX
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dblanchard
Super Looper
Joined: 11 May 2006
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Posts: 177
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Posted: 15 Jun 2009 at 1:14pm |
How many of you read the Wikipedia page without adding kayaks to the "Uses" section?
Seriously, I'm glad we get all your energies here on PP instead.
@etive:
The best explanation I've found was in the PDf on the previous page: http://www.pexassociation.net/uploads/files/What%20is%20crosslinked%20polyethylene.pdf
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dblanchard
Super Looper
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Posted: 15 Jun 2009 at 1:22pm |
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tiziak
Forum Moderator
Joined: 31 Aug 2008
Location: United States
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Posted: 16 Jun 2009 at 8:18am |
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RPM's hit the market around 97' I think.
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If you don't know where you are going, any road will get you there.
Daniel Patrinellis
360.434.4616
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tiziak
Forum Moderator
Joined: 31 Aug 2008
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Posted: 16 Jun 2009 at 8:27am |
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EddyFlower says 1996. I just remember having one before I was in highschool...
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If you don't know where you are going, any road will get you there.
Daniel Patrinellis
360.434.4616
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