I've been boating for about a year and a half now- and am feeling like I might be needing a change in boats soon. I started paddling a 2fun and I've loved it for learning to surf and for downriver. But I think I've gotten to the point where I need a playboat and a creeker if I'm going to try to progress in either. So, advice in either category? I'm about 5'4", 130 lbs and I'm always curious to know why you'd recommend a particular boat.

Thanks!
Shevy

Hey Shevy: Thanks again for your (and your club's help).
Playboat: I'm guessing you're interested in the used market. And if that's the case, you'd probably be able to get your hands on a Kingpin. In my humble opinion, I'm not sure designs have improved all that much since the Kingpin. I made the switch to a Pyranha Rev not because of design, but because of size. A 6.2 might be a tad big, but a 6.1 might be a tad small. If you're mostly focused on surfing and throwing blunts or flatspins, I'd go with the 6.2.
Creekboat: There's a lot of good creekboats out there. But really, it comes down to what kind of a relationship you want with your creeker. Do you want a creekboat that absorbs a lot of the ride by providing a lot of primary stability. Or do you like having your own hip control, something that's a little more edgy, but a little more responsive.
I know the Dagger line well, so I'll start there: The Nomad is Dagger's Hummer of creekboats. I had an 8.1, which I liked okay. And now I have an 8.5, which I've only paddled once.
I also have a mid-size Mamba, and though I keep telling myself not to, I paddle runs with it that I should probably use the Nomad for. It's really fun, super-responsive, boofs easily and can accelerate fairly well.

I've also really liked Pyranha's Karnali. That was a FAST boat, with great hip-response. I'd definitely check that one out before making a decision.

By the way: Brett, the downriver race came together really well. Thank you!

Well I certainly appreciate the suggestions, fellas. I think I'll check out the kingpin while I'm in Missoula next month and have some time to play around in it. Thanks!

And Ian, although I have perfect respect for your drunken rant, this has nothing to do with commercialism. As much as I'd love to rock my little boat down class IV, I don't want to die just yet. And I think that is what would happen.

Nor does it have anything to do with aliases...??

But I do appreciate the opinion- it's not like I NEED a new boat- but it couldn't hurt to give myself any advantage I can get.

Hi Shevy,
I've noticed a lack of 5'4", 130 lb. paddlers responding to your query. I'm not quite that size, but am 5'3 and 120 lbs. (more or less). I have been paddling for over 16 years, so I think I've tried quite a few of the models out there.

So, for my size, I've tried a series of playboats (going WAAAY back:) Gliss (too big), XXX (too uncomfortable, but slicey and fun), Sub 7 (which I still use sometimes -- I tend to like it), S:6 (really liked the boat, but found it very uncomfortable for me), Pocket Rocket (Can't roll the damn thing, but I've done better at Split Rock there than with any other boat), and Star (fun in small stuff, but I think a bit too aggressive for me).

The 2Fun, while a good fit for my size, wasn't stable enough as a river runner and not agressive enough for a playboat. I've demoe'd a 470, but found it a little too stable. I've heard really good things about a Rev, but haven't had a chance to demo one yet. My friend has a liquid logic -- can't remember what model -- and she loves it. She managed 10 spins i a row at Powerhouse a couple of weeks ago -- somethng I can only dream about.

While I can't get anywhere near as technical as JP in describing creekboats, I have found my Java to be pretty responsive, and slice-y enough at the ends to get myself out of holes on occasion. I've tried bigger creekboats, and found they manhandled me down the river, rather than vice-versa. My only complaint is that the Java's heavy (as are all creekers) and sometimes hard to roll (again, as are most creekers). Keep in mind, I only creek once or twice a year. so I'm no expert. For my money, a playboat/creekboat combo sounds like the worst of all worlds -- I have other places to go and play besides a creek run!

Hi Shevy, I'm a bit late to the game since I was out of town, but hopefully some of this will help. Here's my take.

Keep your 2Fun. It's not a perfect playboat, but there's still tons to do with it. Upgrading to a dedicated playboat is probably the worst cost/benefit option on the table.

Creekboats:

At your height and weight, all your problems are going to be with boats being too big, so I won't talk about any of the problems with boats being too small.

Edges:

The debate about hard-chines versus displacement hulls is basically a religious one. People are right on both sides. Find what works for you. I prefer a boat which can hold an edge. However, at your weight, some boats will not keep the edges consistently engaged in the water. This is probably worse than a boat with no edges at all.

Here's how I test if I can keep edges engaged.
1) Find a moderately sized wave train (like Aguagasm at 6k).
2) Face 45 degrees left and drift into a green wave with no speed, no paddle in the water.
3) Drop your right edge a little and notice what happens when you go over the wave.

If you side-slip anywhere between left (relative to the boat) and backwards, then your edge isn't properly engaged and your hull is basically acting like a displacement hull.

If you feel the boat carve straight backwards (relative to the boat) or get pushed up and over the wave, then your edge is engaged.

Width:

I find one of the biggest problems with creekboats for me is that many too wide. A wide boat will feel more stable but inhibit your ability to lean into things, brace or roll. A seat lift can help a bit with this, but it will hurt your stability, and exacerbate back-endering.

Also, wide boats can hurt your ability to take good, vertical forward strokes. Make sure that you can comfortably take forward strokes with your paddle shaft straight up and down. If the boat's getting in the way, your boofs and peel-outs will suffer.

Elbow-Banging:

Make sure you've got a full range of motion without banging your elbows on the cockpit or deck. Some degree of elbow-banging can be mitigated with a seat lift.

The List:

Here's an approximately ordered list of boats I would try if I were in your situation:
Small Fluid Solo
Small Burn
Nomad 8.1
DR Mafia
Prijon Creeker
Jefe Chico
Medium H3

I got a riot air 45 $200. or best offer. Perfect boat for you. Or maybe I'll just keep it for when I lose 50 lbs.... I can't believe I even fit in that thing. I would rant in rave but, why.........?

keep your 2fun and try running harder rivers in it, but gradually, and with people who are more experienced. at first you might swim, but you'll be much better when you eventully get a creekboat.

Hi Shevy,

http://www.kayakpsych.smugmug.com/gallery/8625394_XJJt6#569853769_yXEpz

pretty sweet.