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TastyWaves
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Topic: Lessons Wanted Posted: 23 Aug 2009 at 11:45am |
Anybody interested in giving some lessons? Doesn't have to be one on one, but could be if thats what you prefer. I'm a III-IV boater looking to step it up a notch.
Can pay $$ or trade surfing lessons, 10 years experience riding boards from 5'6" to 9'0". I have extra boards, leashes but only one good winter wet suit. I figured I'd throw that out there in case anybody is intererested in learning to surf this fall/winter season, but I know well that cash is king. Either way works for me.
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James
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Sum Dum Guy
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Posted: 23 Aug 2009 at 1:46pm |
Tasty the best advice is to get a goal for your four zones of whitewater.
Creeking - I don't think that creeking can be simply taught in a 2 day class, and cash won't bring skills. It is a continual process of learning, which can only be achieved through long term repetition and a motivated pursuit of gradient. The best way to achieve skill in this area is to link up with a group of paddlers ranging in skill but similar in motivation and get after it. Stay plugged in and boat as much as possible. Fall is a great time for this! My tip: Find you a crew, and then boat as much as possible.
Playboating - Believe it or not this is one of the easy ones to do on your own. It starts with concepts you can learn on a lake or river nearby and then moves to perfecting movements at local playholes/waves. Yea it certainly helps watching someone and tips and pointers are great, but practice and mad hours in your boat learning your edges and hips are going to really blast you ahead in this zone. My Tip: Don't pay anyone until your hitting a wall, rather hit the lake with someone that can teach you some basics and then practice until your ready for the next steps. I go to the lake on a weekly basis during the summer and there are plenty of other boaters that can pass on the knowledge too! keep an eye out for posts when people are doing flatwater!
RiverRunning - Not enough people seem to focus on this zone. While it is really a core part of all of the different styles of boating. Attainment and just plain downriver style and finesse are a great way to enjoy the sport and right now is a great time of the year for focusing on it. Most of the rivers are low and you can easily find a spot like boulder drop where you can just do lap after lap practicing eddy turns, pealin in and out and still have a blast doing it. My Tip: As you boat pay attention to the smooth lines and people with finesse, watch the movements and practice them. You will find most of these boaters are "old school" (silly to say that I know) but it comes with time and they have been around long enough to love the rio in many ways.
Squirtboatin - I can't really say much about this one since Im no squirt boater. I think it looks amazing and I hope to join the leagues of the sub surface soon, it seems this is one aspect that you really have to niche into because other boaters are not going to be compatible with the focus you need to bring. IE parking at a little deep eddy and squirting for an hour might bore your creekin buddies to death. My Tip: Buy me a squirt boat and I will meet you whenever you want to work on squirtin, I swear!
Might seem like alot of jabber, I just have yet to see anyone really progress in this sport because they took lessons or paid for instruction. Most of the folks that rip it , get there cause they are really motivated to learn and take every chance they have. Help is abundant on the river, you just have to grab it when you can and keep after it!
Edited by James - 23 Aug 2009 at 1:53pm
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Weide
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Posted: 23 Aug 2009 at 6:08pm |
I have three tips: 1) Paddles 2) Paddle 3) Paddle
BTW: There is a great trip to the White Salmon this weekend. You can meet the A-Town Crew (boaters from Auburn) and Dave's Dynamic Double Duo Crew.
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Leland
WW Industry
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Posted: 23 Aug 2009 at 7:19pm |
Originally posted by James
Creeking - I don't think that creeking can be simply taught in a 2 day class, and cash won't bring skills. It is a continual process of learning, which can only be achieved through long term repetition and a motivated pursuit of gradient.
I respectfully disagree on this one. We've been teaching 2 day creeking clinics for almost 5 years now and have seen a lot of people really step up their game after instruction on stroke placement and timing, body position, edge control, and other techniques. There's a lot of specific techniques that you can work on that make a big difference, and instruction is a faster way to learn than trial and error. There's no sport that some coaching won't make you better at. Of course you then have to go out and practice after you've been exposed to the material, but knowing what to work on goes a long way. We've had people who were stuck at 3/4 for years step up their game to 4/5 in a few months after taking a course.
Leland
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TastyWaves
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Posted: 23 Aug 2009 at 9:45pm |
Part of the reason I'm after some lessons is that I've been out of paddling for several years, but I started around age 5 and have a pretty decent foundation. I just moved out here and now have all my gear and am amped to get going.
Look, there is nobody that understands putting in your dues more than a Surfer, man there aren't too many sports with a slower learning curve than that one. However, I could have spent 12 years learning what I did in 3 If I hadn't learned proper techniques for turning, style, and power.
The old Mantra "Practice makes perfect" is only slightly correct. I believe the correct version of this saying is "perfect practice makes perfect".
So of course, I'll be out there paddling like crazy (I just moved here), but I think getting around people that are really knowledgeable and that can become potential mentors is nothing but positive..
But obviously you can't just take a course, push a magic button and suddenly have it down, but trial and error is definitely the slowest way to improve. If you combine practice with the right guidance, its a good mix in my experience.
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SupaSta
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Posted: 23 Aug 2009 at 10:27pm |
Originally posted by Leland
[QUOTE=James]
...We've been teaching 2 day creeking clinics for almost 5 years now ...
Leland
Would love to see your crew teach a course out here for PNW paddlers.
Dan
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Life is short, paddle hard!
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Leland
WW Industry
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Posted: 24 Aug 2009 at 6:40am |
Originally posted by SupaSta
Originally posted by LelandWe've been teaching 2 day creeking clinics for almost 5 years now ... Leland
Would love to see your crew teach a course out here for PNW paddlers.
Dan
We'd love to as well, Dan, and have actually tried to line it up a couple of times. The main stumbling block for us is that the required permits pretty much squash any chance of out of state folks coming in for one weekend - ie. it would cost us far more in time and money to set it up than we could make on the class.
We're actually slowly shifting most of our instruction to our week-long Mexico Trips (who doesn't want to learn while paddling in warm water, staying at a luxury resort and eating 5 star food?) and this winter our 10 day Chile trip as well.
Leland
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tiziak
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Posted: 24 Aug 2009 at 7:46am |
Adrien, I can show you how to be hole bait! Im great at that!!
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If you don't know where you are going, any road will get you there.
Daniel Patrinellis
360.434.4616
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dave
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D4
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Posted: 24 Aug 2009 at 9:58am |
I could teach people how not to creek boat...
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Nomad
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Chuck e fresh
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Posted: 24 Aug 2009 at 12:04pm |
Surfing takes a lot of practice no doubt so you all ready have the mind set learn no matter the risk. That's a huge step for sport's like whitewater kayaking, I suggest getting a few intro to playboating vids if you want to play boat. Ken Whiting and Eric Jackson have good intro and advanced DvD's. Then hook up with knowledgeable and fun people, just like surfing you should learn advance and have a blast. I always say spend less time on talking saves more time on doing. Well maybe I just said that only now but I'd really try not to pay for lessons, if you can trade. Or just paddle with people that want to, not only teach but learn as well. I find most people try to teach before they have learned. To teach it you have to know how to verbally explain technique then show them. Most people just jabber jaw teaching into the ground. Talk talk talk it's just like typing you could go on and on and on for day's and never really accomplish anything except for making yourself feel important by wasting your breath and each others time. I got an Idea grab your gear and come out to the sky. Then Paddle waddle doodle all da day. Don't forget to try what ever it is you want to wrk on because thinking and talking about it only go so far ......Later
Edited by Chuck e fresh - 24 Aug 2009 at 12:06pm
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There's no such word as can't!so stop making excuses!!!!
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Scott_H
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Posted: 24 Aug 2009 at 12:40pm |
Bret Barton (waterwacko) occasionally posts for 2 day creeking classes around here. Also, Wet Planet has classes that would likely fit your needs. Never been to either of them, but I know that Brett and the staff at Wet Planet are solid.
I boated for a few years before I took some formal instruction and found it helpful. Maybe I wasn't running the gnar after the classes - but I felt a whole lot smoother running rivers in general after the classes.
Seeing a perfectly executed draw on a video, then going out and doing it later is one thing, but doing it on the river seconds after an instructor did it is another.
A little formal instruction followed by lots of independent paddling with a good crew to cement the instruction seems like the key to success.
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“The problem with people who have no vices is that generally you can be pretty sure they're going to have some pretty annoying virtues.”
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water wacko
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Posted: 24 Aug 2009 at 12:41pm |
Adrian, I agree with you. That's what I did with skiing and I got good pretty fast. The biggest thing with creeking (I think) is the head game. The basic concepts are simple enough, given some time, but if the head is not right, the body will not follow. Corran Addison has a great DVD called Legend of the Falls, which goes over many techniques and theories in a very easy to understand way.
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"Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." ~Howard Thurman
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TastyWaves
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Posted: 24 Aug 2009 at 8:12pm |
thanks fellas for all the support, I'm pretty amped to be around people that are so into it, its settled then: throw myself into the biggest nastiest holes out there as often as possible:.
And if I'm still alive next spring, take a safety class
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tiziak
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Posted: 24 Aug 2009 at 8:19pm |
That sounds a bit like highschool sex ed!
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If you don't know where you are going, any road will get you there.
Daniel Patrinellis
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STLboater
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Posted: 24 Aug 2009 at 11:15pm |
I'd be willing to trade some instruction for instruction or something of that sort. Send me a pm with contact info and such and maybe we can work something out!
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Kayak Academy Whitewater Instructor
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josho
Splat Wheeler
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Posted: 26 Aug 2009 at 4:04am |
boing!
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The fat lady has not sang.
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James
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Sum Dum Guy
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Posted: 26 Aug 2009 at 11:53am |
Now I am curious!!! ... Lets see what the survey says
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jP
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Posted: 26 Aug 2009 at 4:45pm |
Tasteywaves-- keep me in mind, in an informal way. That is to say I'd be willing to go out with you and have a structured day running some class IV somewhere. Maybe you could just get the gas or something.
If you find good instructors worth paying in a formal setting, that can be a good way to accelerate your skills. You can also learn by watching the good paddlers you paddle with. Their form and habits will rub off on you. Mostly just get out and paddle.
Try to paddle when you otherwise may be inclined to float. You can always improve a forward stroke no matter who you are and that can only be done by paddling, not floating.
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ThrowYaMittsUp
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Posted: 26 Aug 2009 at 6:43pm |
Originally posted by jPTry to paddle when you otherwise may be inclined to float. You can always improve a forward stroke no matter who you are and that can only be done by paddling, not floating. Right On JP! And I would also add that paddling class III is awesome. Sure its boring if you take the standard line, but by picking alternate lines, catching all the funkey eddies, and taking every possible route through a rapid (including up stream moves), you can simulate class IV or even V moves with a lower probability of bodily harm if you screw up. This is a little late now, but any class III boater who lives in Seattle and is trying to step it up this time of year should be on the Sky as much as they can. I concider myself a solid class IV boater on a purposefully slow progression to class V, and I love going out to the Sky to work on my river running skills. As other run dry up, the lower water on the sky reveals all kinds of fun, tricky moves to test and push your skills.
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TastyWaves
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Posted: 26 Aug 2009 at 10:01pm |
I would thoroughly enjoy being schooled in hole bait. In fact, I think I am pretty good in that category
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TastyWaves
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Posted: 26 Aug 2009 at 10:04pm |
Originally posted by jPTasteywaves-- keep me in mind, in an informal way. That is to say I'd be willing to go out with you and have a structured day running some class IV somewhere. Maybe you could just get the gas or something. Yeah JP thats exactly what i have in mind.. not sure why I threw the $$ is king statement in there considering I don't have any. But I definitely have the wheels and can cover the gas anytime you want to go, I'm down..
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TastyWaves
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Posted: 26 Aug 2009 at 10:06pm |
Right On JP! And I would also add that paddling class III is awesome. Sure its boring if you take the standard line, but by picking alternate lines, catching all the funkey eddies, and taking every possible route through a rapid (including up stream moves), you can simulate class IV or even V moves with a lower probability of bodily harm if you screw up. [/QUOTE] I'll be on the Sky this weekend.. thanks for the input I'll go for every eddie I see
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jblum
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Posted: 27 Aug 2009 at 7:05pm |
If you don't think you can improve you paddling through good instruction, you haven't taken the right classes.
I've been teaching here at Wet Planet for 5 years now. I am not an expert instructor, but Andy Round, the lead instructor here, is one of the most experienced, competent, and professional instructors on the west coast. I have seen him teach Class V kayakers all day on a Class II stretch of river. I've seen paddlers who have been boating some of the hardest lines around turn to Andy for instruction and coaching. He is the best instructor I've ever seen, and I've had the privilege of getting to work with him for the past 5 years. He is the man.
Kayaking is a unique sport in that what you do kayaking Class II is the same as what you do kayaking Class V, just on a different level. They eddy's work the same, the strokes are the same, the lines are the same... the difference is the scale. Taking lessons from a really qualified instructor (like Andy) will give you a perspective on kayaking that you never knew existed. Its not like you need someone to teach you how to catch an eddy, but you need someone to refine your eddy catching skill so that it is perfect (or at least much improved).
If you don't believe that a day of instruction is worthwhile, ask Josh Crossman who was just down for a one day creeking clinic one on one with Andy. I'm sure he would say it was well worth his time. A well known paddler in the area said that a day with Andy paddling the lower klickitat (class II) might have been the greatest and most productive day of paddling he's ever had.
If you're looking for great creeking clinics and instruction in the PNW, you really should check out Wet Planet on the White Salmon. Yes, I work here. Yes, this is a biased review (perhaps). But, I have seen a lot of people waste a lot of money on the wrong lessons. I can guarantee you that a one-on-one day with Andy Round ($155) will be one of the best days of kayaking you've ever had.
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JHB
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