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oliver
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  Quote oliver Replybullet Topic: FTIW
    Posted: 23 May 2010 at 11:17pm
Jay and I are were at FTIW today. The level was low-low but still runnable.
We had fun and went for three laps.

Oliver

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oliver
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  Quote oliver Replybullet Posted: 23 May 2010 at 11:17pm
FITW, I mean
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  Quote matthewphoto Replybullet Posted: 25 May 2010 at 10:43am
glad you guys got out there.  sorry to bail, but I had a last minute assignment come up.  did you put in below the "fall in the wall"?  anyhow, hope to see you on the river soon.

-m
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  Quote oliver Replybullet Posted: 25 May 2010 at 11:03am
Hi Matthew,

no problem. Next time you come with.

Yes, we skipped the "Fall". We also acknowledged to some worried stranger that we do know about franklin falls. Must look kind-a funny for muggles if they see us suiting up just 1 mile above the falls.

Cheers,
Oliver
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  Quote James Replybullet Posted: 28 May 2010 at 9:07am
I am going to use this thread to discuss levels Oliver!!! :)

So here is my little gauge lets share them around the house, because everyone gets to gauge rivers on their own but for a new time creeker it is important to find that correlation that will bring you maximum WW joy.



CupChart (nothing like the cupdate but still best I could do)
Really Freagin low - Water below cup, none entering - Near elf perhaps nymph levels
Really Low - Water enters between the lips lapping into cup but not flowing - Elf levels
Low - Water enters freely between lips flowing through cup but not laping at lower lip
Low Medium - Water enters freely between lips lapping at the lower lip
Medium - Water covers lower lip, Cup is full and water laps at upper lip
High - Water laps at upper lip and covers it occasionally
Stout High - Water covers upper lip no lapping
Epic Freaking High - Rock can not be seen but water is still clear - Fearsome One some
Stupid High - Water is Brown no rock can be found - Fishermans is a foolish folly

Thats my level list, what about yours?


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James
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  Quote James Replybullet Posted: 28 May 2010 at 9:08am
Oh and based on the photo above, I would say that's really freagin low. Not to say you can't run it at any of those levels and have fun, but your boat might think otherwise.
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  Quote JayB Replybullet Posted: 28 May 2010 at 9:14am
Hey James:

Awesome chart - definitely belongs on the FITW page for sure.

What level would you say fisherman's gets retentive enough to be a concern for most folks? FITW was pretty much at the level shown on the photo, and it wasn't really an issue, but I seem to remember it starting to get hungry when water was lapping into the cup.
-Jay
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  Quote James Replybullet Posted: 28 May 2010 at 9:23am
Low Medium you want to start watching yourself there and if you are a tenative paddler making sure there is safety around for you. Solid medium starts calling for some type of safety and/or pucker, and when it hits high you can count on butt pucker and safety... 
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  Quote James Replybullet Posted: 28 May 2010 at 9:30am
Added details to the FITW Page
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dave
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  Quote dave Replybullet Posted: 28 May 2010 at 9:41am

Your opinion of the levels is highly incorrect.

I like to run FITW at the low levels and "in the picture" is not a really Freging low level. That is a medium low level.
 
Other very experienced boaters that have been running FITW much longer than you have shown me that anything below the cup level should be considered the low level spectrum and in that spectrum there is much easy fun runnable water in FITW. Rootball comes into play as a nice fun drop with little consiquence and until the water gets about 1 foot below the cup it is pretty much runnable and everything goes.
 
When the water reaches the cup then you are getting into the Medium levels.
 
When the cup is full and over then into the high levels.
 
Simple...
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  Quote JoesKayak Replybullet Posted: 28 May 2010 at 9:59am
You guys are making it complicated. Here's how I gage it from peering over the overlook at FITW/Cuprock area:

Riverbed is dry: Too Low

Water is filling up the canyon and pouring out onto the overlook area by your feet: Too high

Anywhere in between: Medium




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jP
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  Quote jP Replybullet Posted: 28 May 2010 at 10:10am
Originally posted by dave

Your opinion of the levels is highly incorrect.

 
Dave, you sound like a certain someone based on your wordage there- youu trying to fill in for someon'e absence?
 
seriously though, Dave- it was good to see you up there last night.
Perhaps I can broker a compromise between you two...
 
First, it's important to keep things simple, as Dave said.
I look at the two drainage cracks between the upstream peak of rock and the downstream peak of rock. When both cracks are freely connecting the flow of water from the cup to the river, as James described: I consider this in the basic medium low range. No contact between the water in the cup and the water outside of the cup = lowish.
 
Last night it looked much like the photo, but the water outside the cup was perhaps and inch or two higher than shown in the photo. This felt like the very cusp of what you could call "medium low", and JayB was there and seemed to agree. It was surprisingly fluid enough to be a lot of fun. Low perhaps, but almost on the cusp of Med-low.
 
Rock covered? Definitely fits the loose determination of High. Period. Any part of the rock protruding falls in the Med-High range.
 
Pretty simple, like Dave said. We are all saying the same basic thing in different ways. I think people will get the genral idea. But really what we need are three different photos at the actual levels to differentiate it clearly.
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  Quote jP Replybullet Posted: 28 May 2010 at 10:11am
anyway, gotta go- got to meet some folks up there today!!
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James
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  Quote James Replybullet Posted: 28 May 2010 at 10:19am
Right on Dave! but my opinion can't be incorrect because it's just my opinion and as I mentioned each person gets to make that scale for themselves. I am not saying you like boating things at the same level as I do, which is cool !!!

I appreciate your kind response though!
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  Quote jP Replybullet Posted: 28 May 2010 at 10:35am
yeah, we can all be ugly bastards but do we enjoy being that way?
Last night Dave, I think I made a comment:
something about not pushing each others' buttons so much in the wake of the last Nuclear Drama Bomb this site experienced.
 
If we can't find ways to tap into and encourage the positive sides of each other, What the fu*k are we doin here?
 
I know I enjoy being up at FITWah, and in a few hours I'll be a few laps in...
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  Quote James Replybullet Posted: 28 May 2010 at 10:38am
... JP    but I know I should 

Because we all   even when we

So and I hope we get a lap in together, that would be
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  Quote Scott_H Replybullet Posted: 28 May 2010 at 10:39am

I got on this last night for the first time (blinked and walked away from it last year) and enjoyed it despite some occasionally ugly looking lines.  Feeling lucky Fisherman's was not hungry as I plugged it right down the middle each time.  Need some boof work.

What a great run though - I feel like if I came back there time and time again my boating ability should rise a lot faster than taking an equivalent number of runs on the regular
stretches.  I liked JP's advice about trying different approaches on the same drops to get a feel for what works and what doesn't.
“The problem with people who have no vices is that generally you can be pretty sure they're going to have some pretty annoying virtues.”
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  Quote jP Replybullet Posted: 28 May 2010 at 10:48am
yeah, Scott- good to see ya up there. you got about 2 weeks maybe that you can count on, so get it while its hot! who knows? maybe we'll be able to run it longer, but I wouldn't count on it.
 
The time is Now.
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  Quote dave Replybullet Posted: 28 May 2010 at 12:09pm
I reread my post and I think it came out wrong. I should have wrote in my opinion and I disagree about yours. Dam, when I am in a hurry things dont come out right. Very busy today and just wanted to voice my opinion on the low flow spectrum because I am very passionate about the FITW at low flows.
I really enjoy FITW at lower flows, maybe I am whimpy or something, but I think it is like Disney land at those flows!
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  Quote PowWrangler Replybullet Posted: 28 May 2010 at 12:42pm
speaking of fitw, can we get it's flow on the homepage?
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  Quote PowWrangler Replybullet Posted: 28 May 2010 at 4:25pm
Damn, I can't edit.
 
J.P. can you give a heads-up to the cup level.  Flow is 900cfs right and am curious how much of that is coming from lower down.
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Connor
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  Quote Connor Replybullet Posted: 31 May 2010 at 1:30pm
anybody down for an afternoon session?
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  Quote oliver Replybullet Posted: 31 May 2010 at 5:53pm
Water was just flowing into cup on both sides. The lowest of the four cup-edges was constantly overflown by the little ripples. (This was at 2pm, Monday)
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  Quote oliver Replybullet Posted: 31 May 2010 at 5:56pm
Water was just flowing into cup on both sides. The lowest of the four cup-edges was constantly overflown by the little ripples. (This was at 2pm, Monday)
According to James' chart - and if I understand his definitions correctly, this would be a low, or low-medium flow.
It felt more like low-medium to us - a good flow: smooth lines, holes still very tame.
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  Quote jP Replybullet Posted: 31 May 2010 at 7:42pm
yeah= great paddling with you up there and on the Cle Elum, Oliver. TToday's flow was a solid medium:

Cup over runneth, yet the rim of the cup was mostly all out of the water. When it seems through the two cracks it is Medium-low.

When there is no contact between water in the cup and outside of it, it is low.

When the rock is entirely covered it is high.

any way you measure it, it is fun!
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