Food for thought...
Printed From: ProfessorPaddle.com
Category: General
Forum Name: Whitewater Forum
Forum Discription: Open Discussion Forum. Whitewater related subjects only
URL: http://www.professorpaddle.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=11549
Printed Date: 03 May 2024 at 7:46pm
Topic: Food for thought...
Posted By: tiziak
Subject: Food for thought...
Date Posted: 10 Jan 2012 at 12:10pm
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A horrible way to bring these points and questions to light, but there are some solid perspectives to absorb in here.
Death on the http://boatertalk.com/forum/BoaterTalk/1052338330/ - Upper Blackwater
Stay SAFE!!
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If you don't know where you are going, any road will get you there.
Daniel Patrinellis
360.434.4616
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Replies:
Posted By: James
Date Posted: 10 Jan 2012 at 1:04pm
Terrible news, I did not read the exact post you saw B, but it seems BT still flames on.
I know this is off topic but does anyone else have a hard time figuring out how to read those posts... it takes me half an hour to figure out who said what and when outside of the direct hierarchy.
Oh well.
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Posted By: Ellingferd
Date Posted: 10 Jan 2012 at 1:49pm
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The only thing I learned from that post is that guy is an asshole. Elitism needs to leave this sport, particularly when commenting on someone's tragic and untimely death.
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Posted By: JayB
Date Posted: 10 Jan 2012 at 2:36pm
Here's some more useful info that I found at www.npmb.com:
-Site of the fatality with comments relating to a prior drowning at the same site.
http://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/Article/view/articleid/31009/
-WV news article.
http://www.wvmetronews.com/news.cfm?func=displayfullstory&storyid=50210
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-Jay
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Posted By: tiziak
Date Posted: 10 Jan 2012 at 2:45pm
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They layout of the forum is complete garbage, making it very difficult to quickly follow in a cohesive timeline.
I do think there are some valid points in there.
Obviously there are better ways to get info out there and I'm not sure that the best time to be doing it is while the guy's friends and family are google-ing (sp?) everything and anything about the run he died on. That being said, this stuff only comes up when there is an issue and something goes wrong.
I was pretty put off at first, until I read the entire thread (as of about 1pm). I think it’s worth digesting.
If for nothing else, it was worth internalizing. I've been routed down runs I had no business being on. Make you appreciate your fate so far.
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If you don't know where you are going, any road will get you there.
Daniel Patrinellis
360.434.4616
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Posted By: Jule
Date Posted: 12 Jan 2012 at 10:16am
First hand account of the accident:
http://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/Accident/detail/accidentid/3589/
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Posted By: jP
Date Posted: 13 Jan 2012 at 4:00pm
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Originally posted by James
Terrible news...I know this is off topic but does anyone else have a hard time figuring out how to read those posts... it takes me half an hour to figure out who said what and when outside of the direct hierarchy.Oh well.
Boater Talk sucks for that reason: I consider it an unuseable resource due to the design flaws of its site. Its a deal breaker for me so I never check it out.
But I can't feel like I'm missing much. Mostly sensationalist reactions to each others' posts. But if Tiziak says he found some thought provoking stuff in there, I don't doubt it.
I read the AW accident report, and it seemed as "complete" as it could be, despite the bias of the individuals present (and I don't mean any disrespect at all, just saying that the account is inevitably going to be distorted by those present- but its human nature and we can be confident they did everything they could).
For what its worth that is a spookiy drop to stare down the barrel of, if it is the one I recall (haven't paddled it since the mid 90's):
You gotta stay on the center of a huge slide that narrows down almost to a point, with gravity pulling off to either side. You know what it reminds me of? The center line of China Falls on the Cle Elum. Different consequences though. It wouldn't be too hard to let yourself slip offline to the left the way Mr. Norr did. But with some of these class V moves, you just don't have a margin big enough to afford being 6" off line.
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🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋
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Posted By: jP
Date Posted: 13 Jan 2012 at 4:03pm
And, to put the whole run in perspective, Its steep like the LW, with the Gnar factor of Robe. I think it changes a lot like Robe, too. It has a simlar, rough hewn jagged nature. Not as "polished" as many of the other runs in the general WV nieghborhood.
Plenty of fatalities and assorted horror stories are associated with that run.
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🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋
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Posted By: jP
Date Posted: 13 Jan 2012 at 4:24pm
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Originally posted by Ellingferd
The only thing I learned from that post is that guy is an asshole. Elitism needs to leave this sport, particularly when commenting on someone's tragic and untimely death.
Now I agree with you and everyone else who expressed being put off by this asshole's insensitive comments. The flaming that was spoken of on the Boater Talk thread was disrespectful to say the least.
We can't be judgemental of the victom or his qualifications if we didn't know him personally or see him boat. And people get all sensational (almost like we are at risk of doing now) when they don't have all, or any, of the info.
Bottom line is that this instant Web Yakkin we are able to do all the time lends itself to people being able to express themselves faster than they can reflect on what they really should express, and how they should express it.
As far as boating class V when you don't really got skills to be there yet, well, the cold hard truth is, most paddlers cutting their teeth in the class V realm are probably guilty of this. Why? Because they are too impatient to really develope solid fundementals before launching into class V. You need more than just a solid roll. Sometimes you can't afford to flip, or, to be more than 3-6" off line at the crux spot where ya gotta execute the critical move.
I'm not at all suggesting this was Mr. Norr's case. Didn't know him. Can't/won't try to evaluate whether he "should have been there".
Just saying to those wanting to "step it up":
How bout you learn how to "watch your step" instead? Learn to boat smooth and stay out of trouble. My love of the sport rests more in the sensation of boating smooth and in control more than in some quest to "run the gnar". Free your mind, and your boat will follow.
That said, sometimes your number just comes up. The "law of averages" is also an evil mistress of the river, and can sometimes be very unfair.
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🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋
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