Robe Race 2009
Printed From: ProfessorPaddle.com
Category: General
Forum Name: Whitewater Forum
Forum Discription: Open Discussion Forum. Whitewater related subjects only
URL: http://www.professorpaddle.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=8041
Printed Date: 19 Apr 2024 at 12:12am
Topic: Robe Race 2009
Posted By: toddg
Subject: Robe Race 2009
Date Posted: 08 Apr 2009 at 5:53pm
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I've been getting more & more emails & calls about this .. so I guess it's time to announce Robe Race 2009 & start soliciting race teams & volunteers.
At the moment, we're targeting the weekends of May 9, May 16, or May 23. Not sure which yet. To a certain extent, it'll be dependent on what feedback the racers weigh-in with on the timing of it. And to a large extent, it will be based on the weather over the next couple weeks. It will be a one-day thing -- either Saturday or Sunday -- on one of those weekends. So if you are interested in participating either as a racer (teams of two), shore support (timekeepers, scribes, safety), or safety-kayaker, please let me know asap so I can start compiling everyone's info. If you have questions or comments, feel free to email me (toddgillman@gmail.com) or just post to this thread. For those of you new to this non-event, here are a couple links to blogs with purty pictures, so you can read up on the race. The Robe Gnomes are waiting .. |
Replies:
Posted By: toddg
Date Posted: 08 Apr 2009 at 5:55pm
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whoops ... links:
http://plungepool.blogspot.com/2008/04/robe-race-oh-eight.html http://therangelife.blogspot.com/2008/04/robe-race-08.html |
Posted By: hutchm
Date Posted: 08 Apr 2009 at 7:57pm
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I am planning on racing again and likely to keep the dibs on the robe gnome.
Should be good times again. ------------- Yaris power baby |
Posted By: jP
Date Posted: 09 Apr 2009 at 1:43pm
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I'm thinkin I wanna race but it's dependent upon what my potential race partner thinks, ect. Plan on lettin you know soon.
jP
-I just hope them Robe Gnomes have mercy on me! They've been 'lil tricksters lately! I flipped below T2 the other day and One of them grabbed my stern and was dragging it along a wall while another was repeatedly punching me in the shoulder. Those 'lil buggers GANGED UP ON ME! I think the one must've hitched a ride on my boat, because when I flipped at the bottom of Faceplant he started hitting me again!
I'll tell ya... ------------- 🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋 |
Posted By: toddg
Date Posted: 27 Apr 2009 at 8:58am
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The date for the showdown in gnome-town is set for May 16. More details here: http://therangelife.blogspot.com/2009/04/psa-robe-race-details.html
I hope to see some folks from PP this year at the race! If interested in racing or volunteering (timekeeping, safety boat, shore safety, etc.), please get in touch with me. thanks! |
Posted By: jP
Date Posted: 27 Apr 2009 at 4:14pm
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Does anyone hear anything? What's that sound?
--Oh. wait. It's my knees knocking together again! ------------- 🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋 |
Posted By: xanthopb
Date Posted: 12 May 2009 at 1:26pm
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Levels should make this event sight to be seen. I'm getting fired up to see Hugo there. ------------- O-Qua Tangin Wann |
Posted By: James
Date Posted: 12 May 2009 at 1:57pm
Ohhh EEEE |
Posted By: James
Date Posted: 12 May 2009 at 1:57pm
Anyone making practice laps this week? 
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Posted By: Fish
Date Posted: 12 May 2009 at 1:57pm
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The Robe Gnomes will make their presence known, no doubt. I'm hoping to sneak through with offerings of good will, and river karma.
------------- |
Posted By: ALCOHOLIC
Date Posted: 12 May 2009 at 8:45pm
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what time does the race start??????? ------------- Masturbating Monkey |
Posted By: toddg
Date Posted: 13 May 2009 at 11:05am
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copy/pasted from an email i just sent out to group of racers & volunteers:
Hey everyone. Race weekend coming right up! And, looking at the forecast, it appears as though we'll have plenty of water. I've gotten several emails from people concerned that we may have too much water for the race, or at least, for those folks to race comfortably. I'm proposing we call it right now that Saturday will be a practice day &/or a "wait & see" day & plan to hold the actual race on SUNDAY, when flows promise to be lower. If the current forecast is to be trusted at all, we'll see convergence zone with lots of rain in the Everett zone & flow spike tonight & tomorrow ... & then receding water levels Friday through Sunday, hopefully putting us in the upper-mid 5's on Sunday for the race. How does the gang feel about that? In other news, I have two 6-barrels (small kegs) in my garage that will need to be emptied after the race. And, the embroidery on the robes should be finished at the last possible second. Which brings me to the next thing ... I am going to tuck my tail 'tween my legs & ask for a one-time race donation of $10 up to whatever you're comfortable with, to help cover the costs I've incurred in the one-time "set up" fee for the embroidery .. which was surprisingly expensive. Last year, some ppl took it upon themselves to "pass the hat" & I am super grateful for that. It covered the cost of robes, stop watches, some beer, etc. This year, with the embroidery, my out-of-pocket expense went through the roof. I don't expect to cover the whole expense, but if I could help offset it a little, i'd be very stoked. I'm bringing some kegs of beer this time, so hopefully that will justify a small cash donation from the participants? No pressure, if you're strapped financially though I just sent that email an hour ago. Haven't gotten many replies yet. We met at 9am sharp last year & it worked out well. Robe gnomes .. yeah. Anyone notice the gnome at Garbage? Who's responsible??? |
Posted By: toddg
Date Posted: 14 May 2009 at 10:18am
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The race will be on SUNDAY. Flows will likely be perfect & the weather is forecast to be amazing ... sunny & 70's. So even if you're not racing or volunteering, please feel free to come out & hike in on the Old Robe trail where you can watch some of the best action. Bring a friend.
Meet at 9 a.m. at the Granite Falls parking lot (take out) so we can have a brief competitors meeting & volunteer coordination meeting. After the race, we'll go to the park on the Stillaguamish that is better known as the take out for Canyon Creek. In Granite Falls, go North on Jordan Rd. (at the light with the Subway store), then it's your 1st Right after crossing the river. We'll drink some beer & do the awards thing. For volunteers/spectators, here's a link to a map that shows the trail systems around the canyon: http://www.robecanyon.org/Images/robe_canyon_map_line_drawing.jpg Best spectatin' happens from a short hike into the canyon on the Old Robe Trail, where you can watch the start of the race as well as the first half-mile of whitewater. Finish line timekeepers will need to hike in on the Lime Kiln Trail, which takes about an hour if you're moving quickly. Not many people have confirmed to volunteer, so I haven't been able to delegate duties or make a list of who's doing what. So if you're into helping or if you can bring some people who want to help, then let me know. Otherwise, as Rumsfeld sez, we'll go to war with the army we got ... & we'll know what that looks like on Sunday morning. thanks, todd 206 300 0131 |
Posted By: jP
Date Posted: 14 May 2009 at 7:04pm
Rummie was one of my early paddling mentors. Until he took up waterboarding. Then i didn't think he was cool anymore. ------------- 🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋 |
Posted By: James
Date Posted: 14 May 2009 at 7:39pm
Waterboarding? Is that the sport that jimmy buffet does with a surfboard and a paddle? |
Posted By: zenofww
Date Posted: 15 May 2009 at 9:57am
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Looking forward to Sunday! It looks like flows and weather will be perfect! Planning on bringing a stove and foods and do a bit of cooking at the canyon creek take-out. Oh and definately drinking beer.
I just got a glimpse of the new robes...SWEET! looking forward to taking one home. I hope to see a bunch of peeps out there. |
Posted By: Liz
Date Posted: 15 May 2009 at 11:02am
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[QUOTE=James]Waterboarding?
Paddleboarding. The boards are usually a bit longer than surfboard, and companies make special long paddles for them now too. ------------- |
Posted By: jP
Date Posted: 15 May 2009 at 12:11pm
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What?! Jimmy Buffet has been torturing people with Donald Rumsfeld? That does it. I'll never be able to listen to "Margaritaville" again. I shudder to think about what he has in mind with his "Lost shaker of salt"!
But seriously, some stout flows persist on the 'ol Robe! gonna be some action out there this weekend! ------------- 🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋 |
Posted By: Fish
Date Posted: 15 May 2009 at 12:26pm
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I'm hoping local paddlers will volunteer for safety and other duties, given the great flows. Either way the race will go down, gnomes will be fiesty, shit will be talked, and good beer will get drank! .
------------- |
Posted By: justin
Date Posted: 15 May 2009 at 3:47pm
Posted By: PowWrangler
Date Posted: 15 May 2009 at 6:22pm
Wish I could run boat safety again this year but seeing as how the kiddo has sapped my paddling time, I'd be a liability to others going in there above 5.5. Or maybe there'd be a safety crew for some of the safety crew?  Should be sweet though, heard some of y'all are doing three laps a day in preparation. Saw Rob today, he's rockin old school ankle high climbing shoes for the portage. Nice. |
Posted By: The OAC
Date Posted: 16 May 2009 at 12:27am
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I'm not going to race this year, but I'm thinking of pulling safety and/or doing the run. Anybody into a more casual run following the racers?
Jeff ------------- The OAC is a private username and is not connected with the good folks at the OAC kayak shop, who are in no way responsible for ranting, soap boxing, or mud slinging conducted under this name. |
Posted By: jP
Date Posted: 16 May 2009 at 8:50am
Flows are looking high.  Forecast indicates flows greater than 6' all weekend. It may be an interesting weekend! ------------- 🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋 |
Posted By: dave
Date Posted: 16 May 2009 at 11:16am
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Why did everyone go to the Wenanchee when the Robe race is tomorrow?? ------------- Nomad |
Posted By: toddg
Date Posted: 16 May 2009 at 11:48am
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As of Saturday at 11am, we have 6 ft .. & with the sun & very warm temps today looms the threat of higher water tomorrow .. Is that a certainty? Not exactly, so we'll just have to watch flows throughout the day/night .. & make the call early in the a.m.
I am considering calling 6 ft the "cutoff" (but if it's 6.1, we go .. since the tangible difference between 5.9 & 6.1 is truly indistinguishable). But that tactic will only work if we have a critical mass of teams excited to race. For the purposes of the race, 6 committed teams will be the critical mass. So if 6 teams are willing to race at 6 ft, then the race is on. Racing with fewer than that, while a neat demonstration of who's the tuffest/ballsiest, is contradictory to the whole point of this non-event. If it turns out we don't reach critical mass, then I'd rather wait for lower flows & get full participation & have an awesome party with lots of people involved. So, with that in mind, I really need to get commitment levels from from race teams. What I need to know: 1. Do you have a water level in mind above which you will not race? (What level?) 2. Is it critical to you to have on-water safety / safety kayakers in order to race? 3. Are you willing to postpone the race to a future weekend &/or play the waiting game? As a racer, my own answers to this are: 1. 6.1 feet 2. No, it's not critical because the point of a team race on Robe is to feel secure in my own skills to run the river safely & to perform rescue/safety duties for my partner .. & vice versa. 3. Definitely If you could get back to me with your thoughts on all this stuff by this evening that would be really helpful. It's super difficult to plan an event & pull together all the moving parts when the majority of the participants are silently noncommittal. So please let me know your thoughts on this asap. thx, t |
Posted By: fiddleyak
Date Posted: 16 May 2009 at 10:45pm
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Just heard from Todd that he doesn't have a single volunteer. What's up with everybody? Does nobody want to take a hike on a beautiful day to support an event? Canyon Creek will an awesome flow, as soon as the race is over you can get a lap on that and then drink the beer that the organizer has provided. I hope people come out tomorrow, flow is perfect and the weather is better than I can remember. Next weekend is memorial day, I'm looking to take a boating trip out of town so I hope the Robe Race goes forward as scheduled. -Ben |
Posted By: toddg
Date Posted: 17 May 2009 at 6:37am
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gonna have to postpone it for now.
lack of support is one thing .. the other is that, at 6.4, it's over the high end i set. |
Posted By: 1150lbsofaire
Date Posted: 17 May 2009 at 9:56pm
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did anyone run robe today? if so they should get the robe
------------- lookin for a bow cap for a storm |
Posted By: water wacko
Date Posted: 17 May 2009 at 10:34pm
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I know my friend Rob Mckibbin was out there. ------------- "Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." ~Howard Thurman |
Posted By: ALCOHOLIC
Date Posted: 18 May 2009 at 12:38am
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Brett.. Rob doesn't even like you... You can call him your friend and that's great but when he speaks of you the word "friend" never really come out of his mouth.. Usually it's like bonehead, or idiot, or cum-guzzler, fuck-face, gaper, shit-head... Things like that.. Just never heard him say Brett's my "friend".. Weird huh? I think he even called you an ass-clown tea bag lover once. What is an ass-clown tea bag lover Brett? hehehe hahaha hohoho! Anyway, just so yo know, I LOVE YOU... ------------- Masturbating Monkey |
Posted By: belshazzar
Date Posted: 18 May 2009 at 12:25pm
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Hmm .... I have never heard Rob use such language unless the person is present, although one time he did call this kid a dirty weaping pussy for running some little waterfall sloppy and breaking a paddle, other than that and another time we were at a truckstop looking for dates such foul language has never been Robs likelyness, unless your camping, or boating, or maybe just hanging out.
Isn't this thread about the Robe Race though?
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Posted By: coreboater
Date Posted: 18 May 2009 at 12:46pm
| Bunch of pussies, all accept for Rob, that is... |
Posted By: Fish
Date Posted: 18 May 2009 at 12:59pm
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It's a bummer that the race had to be postponed, i hope we can pull together and reschedule, i had a great time last year, and i'm sure this year will be even better! ------------- |
Posted By: James
Date Posted: 18 May 2009 at 1:02pm
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I am thinking that people are either not reading or misreading the title of this thread. Don't forget the E, it's not the Rob Race thread. Let's get back to the subject. When is the race going to be re-scheduled? |
Posted By: ALCOHOLIC
Date Posted: 18 May 2009 at 1:31pm
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Oh yeah, Robe Race.. Jeez Brett! always trying to veer off the subject with some stupid comment.. What I meant to say is hopefully the robe race is the weekend after memorial. If so I could come out and help with safety, I would like to do some filming as well but I could definitely be of some help. anyway, Leavenworth this weekend! see ya'll there, lots o water, lots of bikin, lots o vagina.... oh and beer! ------------- Masturbating Monkey |
Posted By: RemAcct2
Date Posted: 18 May 2009 at 1:40pm
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------------- |
Posted By: water wacko
Date Posted: 18 May 2009 at 2:03pm
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yep ------------- "Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." ~Howard Thurman |
Posted By: toddg
Date Posted: 18 May 2009 at 2:49pm
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huh ... interesting how this thread finally gets some posts AFTER the race date. i got damn little feedback early on about when to hold the race or even about teams. i NEVER got a reply from just about every single one of the people who came out & contributed to the fun we had last year. as of this past friday at midnight, i had a grand total of 2 people committed to helping with time keeping. everyone else silently sat on their hands & looked for a better alternative for the weekend .. with zero communication back to me.
fish i'm surprised to see your post. i never got a response from you or JP regarding the mass email / post i posted -- the one with "3 questions". & where were you guys on saturday when it was at a PERFECT flow & 70 degrees? 2 groups on the river all day the day before the race. all the info i got, apart from the 5 teams who called me to say "let's race at 6 ft", came second hand. no responses to the email or the PP post. kinda hard to plan an event when no one communicates. alcoholic, it would be cool if instead of trolling for bad vibes on the forums, maybe you could just commit to racing or at least volunteering. i know you've run robe -- what -- once? twice? so maybe it's time for you to get some practice runs in & actually get comfy on the run so you can commit to racing it & actually earn the right to talk shit on the Robe Race thread. & brett? you've totally avoided this topic/event all along & have never even run robe canyon (& yet somehow you definitely seem to have some strong opinions on the run). why is it that you're now name-dropping on the thread that was intended to rally some support for a fun event? if you guys have feedback for when you would like the race to be held, i will take it into consideration. but after the totally underwhelming response i've gotten from this community thus far, i think it would make more sense for me to make the decision based on data i can pull from Snotel & from a combination of long range forecast info. if anyone is willing to actually COMMIT to taking a day out of their busy lives & pitching in (& drinking beer you won't have to buy & eating food you won't have to cook & having fun with friends), then please get in touch. todd ps, sorry if i sound a bit salty on this post .. i was disappointed by the lack of communication from everyone in the days leading up to the event, & was bummed to have to postpone .. but that's the breaks. we'll do it later & it will be fun. |
Posted By: Fish
Date Posted: 18 May 2009 at 3:25pm
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Todd, I really appreciate all your effort to put this race together again. I know JP and I were pretty stoked to race on Sunday, but with thewater levels well over 6 feet, and lack of safety support, my motivated disipated, cant speak for JP. In my email to you prior to the race, i stated my concerns about the lack of safety volunteers for the race, and that strongly influenced my decision personally. ------------- |
Posted By: toddg
Date Posted: 18 May 2009 at 4:50pm
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Originally posted by Fish
Todd,I really appreciate all your effort to put this race together again. I know JP and I were pretty stoked to race on Sunday, but with thewater levels well over 6 feet, and lack of safety support, my motivated disipated, cant speak for JP. In my email to you prior to the race, i stated my concerns about the lack of safety volunteers for the race, and that strongly influenced my decision personally. yeah, i totally understand that scott. it's no worries. i'm referring mainly to how i never heard from a huge group of people from friday through sunday morning, when i was literally begging everyone to let me know what they were thinking in terms of levels, safety, volunteering, postponing, etc. ben brought up a great point earlier in this thread (late saturday night) -- for those racers who didn't want to race at 6 ft, you could always come out & still have a great day, maybe be a start line timekeeper or safety support (on land) for a little while .. then go run a lap or two on canyon creek .. then float downstream & literally take out at the race after party. i can't stage a race event if i don't have at least a barebones team of volunteers to do timekeeping duties. if it turned out to be 6 ft instead of 6+ on sunday am, i would have had 6 teams willing to race but I wouldn't have had finish line timekeepers .. and none of the racers that opted out offered to help out in any way. also, briefly .. about on-river safety .. the robe race was never contingent upon there being safety kayakers. there aren't enough people around here that even paddle robe to populate every rapid with safety people. that's why it's a team race. as mentioned before, racers gotta be secure in their own & their partner's skills. if uncomfortable, this race ain't for you. as this is the second year, everyone has had, in theory, over a year to get to know the run & get comfortable running it with their partners. having said that, last year's event, with tons of ppl standing on shore holding bags the whole way down to hotel california, as well as a sizeable on-water safety crew, was awesome .. but seems to be more a function of ass-bustin' low flow that lots people seem to prefer. (news flash: robe is harder in the mid 5's than it is the upper 5's) |
Posted By: water wacko
Date Posted: 18 May 2009 at 5:26pm
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Todd,
I'm not sure how I'm a bad guy for any of this, even 'name dropping.' Rob's my friend like ALCOHOLIC said. I think he's badass, and I'm proud of Rob.
I've never had a burning desire to kayak Robe at all. I think it's great others do and I think the race is an awesome idea and congratulate you for heading the effort, making it happen last year, and working on it this year. I respect the boaters who do run Robe, but it ain't my bag. I don't feel obligated to 'voluteer'. I don't feel I'm letting my 'community' down by not being there. Nor do I feel like commenting positively about one of my closest friends would be something I would get slammed for. I'll ask permission next time before I post on 'the robe thread.'
------------- "Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." ~Howard Thurman |
Posted By: JoesKayak
Date Posted: 18 May 2009 at 5:30pm
Too bad things didn't work out. I'm not a Robe boater myself, but I had a great time last year as safety support... If that's what you call sitting on a rock drinking a beer with a throwbag close by  ... And would have liked to help this year, but for me personally it was a matter of timing. Last year it was earlier in the season and not alot of other runs were in at the time so it was a great way to spend a day. This year the attempt was later in the season and happened to be an awesome weekend for boating with great flows all over the place and so, just no way I was going to trade watching boating for actually boating somewhere. I'm sure there are lot of others who are in basically the same "boat" who would also have volunteered in some capacity. Best of luck for next time, it was a great event last year, hopefully it happens again. Props to you, Todd for your work on this really cool race.
|
Posted By: jP
Date Posted: 18 May 2009 at 7:03pm
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well said, Joe. I've found May to be a tough time of year to pin people down. There are so many options this time of year (yes we are VERY spoiled here in the PNW). Often I don't know my weekend plans until very late on Friday because everyone waits till the last minute to show their hand.
Todd-- I'm TRULY sorry for my own silence. This was not intentional. There are two reasons.
1) perhaps the biggest reason for me is the economy. work is hard to come by, i'm broke, hungry, my phone got shut off, and I can't afford internet access. communication is a challenge right now.
2) 6.4' is above my personal cutoff. 6.2' is my current height limit as I've had one clean run at that level and one run that kicked my ass about 4 times hard. I can paddle it at 6' or race it below 6', but I'm reluctant to combine the two. Fish and I were basicly on the same page, so we stuck together all weekend on standby to monitor flows. When they were clearly above 6', we salvaged the weekend to do some other paddling.
Hey, the Robe Gnomes got one over on us, even you, Todd. I'm sorry. I wanted to participate. Fish and I kept the whole weekend open for the event. For some reason the high flows made me really dread the race. I've been trying to get out on Robe for some fresh practice runs for weeks now, but it's been consistantly high.
I wouldn't blame this forum too much though. There's only a small fraction of the members here who run Robe at all, let alone run it at the higher end of the stick gauge. And then there's other paddlers who seem to avoid this forum like the plague. But where were they? Also absent, I gather. I do feel bad that you were left holding the bag.
------------- 🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋 |
Posted By: zenofww
Date Posted: 18 May 2009 at 8:32pm
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Would people come to race/watch when other things are flowing even if the robe is at 5.0 -5.7? would it take the flow being at a certain levels to interest people to come out and watch/help with the race and maybe get a chance to paddle it with the safety crew if only the flow was low enough? what I am also wondering is if people REALLY are not comfortable paddling/hanging out/racing the robe at the higher flows? if so then lets just get it out there. THEN when the time comes to plan the event we will know the parameters better. it seems like some effort/fustration could have been saved if people would have piped in and said they would rather go kayaking elsewhere then race/watch at ???flows. I know I dont want the race to be a pissing match for the few that boat it at high flows, and I imagine others dont need to see that either. Id like to have a bunch of people on the river to hangout/race with then a party afterwards. Even if its 4.9 ft.
Other plans can get in the way, flows are hard to predict but its a damn fine run with great logistics and consistently decent flows and I feel its worth the time and effort to put a day of other runs off to enjoy and show support for the great kayaking it has to offer. looking forward to a future race date. |
Posted By: RemAcct2
Date Posted: 18 May 2009 at 8:50pm
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Posted By: fiddleyak
Date Posted: 18 May 2009 at 9:04pm
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Of course the race should be held when flows are low so we get lots of participation. The fact is the race was scheduled for a date when there was at least a 50% chance that we would have 5.5+. Noone said anything or complained, and instead just kept silent up until the day of the race. I had a great time racing Robe last year and I was really looking forward to it this year. However, we're now in the peak of our season. Personally, I think we should call it off until the first Saturday in Oct/Nov that flows are between 5 and 5.5. |
Posted By: toddg
Date Posted: 18 May 2009 at 11:07pm
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i'll try to respond to everyone briefly.
brett -- didn't mean to "slam" you. just was kind of bummed that you had no interest in this thread or the concept of the race, until a day after race day, & only then for the reason of talking about your friend who was one of numerous people running robe at high flow. think about it. but no big deal man, i'm just offloading some steam. joe -- if you weren't planning to race or volunteer, then no explanation needed. but i appreciate the thoughts just the same! JP -- hate to hear about your situation, that totally blows. unfortunately, lots of ppl in the same boat at the moment. lemme know if i can help .. at least with beer :) & again, never intended to run the race at 6.4, so no need for anyone to explain about not wanting to race at 6.4. but had we woken up to 5.9, as of 2 am the night before when i finally got to sleep, i had next to no commitments from people & a whole lot of silence. zen -- well said. this is what i was getting at in the "3 questions" email/post. the main thing too, is that i really need to be more proactive on the volunteer thing, & get solid commitments from people who are psyched to do it. leif -- i'm aware of the wide range of paddlers who frequent this site. i'm also aware that it's a great "shotgun" approach to reaching a wider audience than i'd be able to hit with just my email contacts. it's also the only real NW-only forum, so it makes sense to post here. don't think this is the only outlet i utilized for promoting this. your advice would be spot on if i just loved doing event planning & i wanted to create an event just for having an event's sake, or one just for PP members. that's not the case. robe canyon, whether or not it smacks of "elitism", is one of the best stretches of class V whitewater in the country. class V kayakers like to race class V whitewater. it happens all over the world. i wanted to create a totally one-of-a-kind, grassroots-oriented race, that screams "northwest" not "elitism". robe is that race. it's an hour out of seattle & is very well suited to the race format we've set up. but to do that, to really pull off a successful event, i need the buy-in of racers (which we had) & volunteers (which we did not have). it's not a race for the "rank & file" & i don't expect this event to cater to everyone or even half of everyone .. but the spectator-friendly nature of robe, the nearby class IV options, & the free beer are things that even the "rank & file" can enjoy on a sunny sunday afternoon, as evidenced by last year's event. but to joe's point, maybe there were just too many other options for people to choose from. i just expected better communication from those who were supposed to participate. fiddle/ben -- the race maybe "should" be held at low flow, but it is what it is. guessing what ma nature is gonna do is extraordinarily difficult, as you know. we based these dates off long-range weather forecasts & snotel data, a month or two out. we ALMOST nailed it. it got warmer than even the meteorologists predicted 36 hrs out .. shit! & think about the racer backlash if we postponed or canceled race day because it was running 5.8, not 5.5 or whatever. as ben mentioned, we're almost certainly in the upswing to peak. as such it makes sense to try to plan the race for the back side of the bell curve .. which is going to be even tougher. the new strategy is 666, the number of the beast. for the race to happen, i need a minimum of 6 committed volunteers, a minimum of 6 teams who will race on race day at a maximum of 6 feet on the gauge. this whole thing is a learning process for me & one conclusion i've come to is that i'm gonna build the volunteer army out of non-kayakers! these people are unsullied by whitewater insecurity, flow concerns & the threat of class V elitism .. i just thought all along that kayakers who didn't want to race would have an interest in helping out. thanks for taking the time to weigh in & for reading this far, if you actually made it! t edit: i think on thursday i actually said to somebody, "i'm beyond confident that we'll have perfect flows on sunday!" karma's a beeyotch, eh? |
Posted By: PowWrangler
Date Posted: 19 May 2009 at 12:20am
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Leif, this isn't about mass marketing an event. Who cares if not
everyone can participate? Should the Green Race have a class III race
on the upper for those that can't handle Gorilla? Maybe the Boston
Marathon should reduce it's distance so more folks can feel included? Anyhoo, hopefully this can get off the ground again sometime soon. Sucks that volunteers couldn't committ....maybe have g.f's/wives of racers as backup in case hem/hawers didn't show up? I am guilty of not replying to that email, kind of got lost in the fray I guess. I agree with Joe as well. I've got a kid now and have limited times to get in my boat. When I saw Robe predicted to stay out of my current comfort range, I knew I was not going to spend my time hanging out with a bag on shore, I was going to be getting a full day of paddling in somewhere. If she's is in the med - med/low range and I can get a hall pass for the next race date, I'll be there for sure. |
Posted By: PaulGamache
Date Posted: 19 May 2009 at 12:38am
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Ben brought up a good point, why not just have the race in the Fall? There's much less boating options during that time and the flows are much more predictable, this could even lead to it being a boating destination during that time of the year since there's few other choices for class V. Todd, I know how much of a bitch putting on an event can be. It's almost impossible to know if people are going to show up, no one commits to anything, and your stuck holding the bill. None of it's personal, kayakers are flaky, non-committal, cheap dirtbags. Best thing to do, pick a date, tell people, put it on regardless if people are showing up or not. My take is that I'm going to have a great time regardless if anyone else shows up. First year we did the race down Burnt Ranch we had only 3 people (Hawthorne, Wolfgram, and I) race at a flow of 3,700 (far higher than when most people paddle the Ranch let alone race), with no safety. That said it is still one of the most fun days of racing I've had, not my fault no one else rallied. Best of luck w/ the race nonsense. Everyone appreciates your efforts. ------------- 27/320 & 1 bootie |
Posted By: James
Date Posted: 19 May 2009 at 8:05am
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I have not really had any involvement in the race from last year or this years. So in that sense it might not matter what I have to say, but as a paddler that loves robe I will chime in. With a shoulder still on the mend I don't race, I paddle what I paddle at my own pace. I also am one of the lower end Robe paddlers. High fives is fine but 6 will be where I get out. If the race were on the 4.8-5.8 range I would be inclined to come out, first so I could boat (I know it sounds selfish, but we got this depression on an I got to do for me and my own) and second so I could run safety somewhere. That being said I never volunteered for the race because it was rather clear it was going to be in a zone that I did not want to make a weekend out of. I think it is safe to say from last years Icicle race that if the river is not at a level others don't want to boat at, no one shows up, just the racers that are ready to go. Onto Leif, for some dag gone reason you always go piping off like this. The PP ball was there for you buddy, there to capture what ever the group wanted. What now only events can take place that satisfy the masses... forget that. To each his own. I am stoked that Todd is willing to take time to plan an event, coordinate it and include PP as an outlet for communicating. We all should be. Now if he were looking to sell shit and make money, like others, it would be a different story, but hot dang he wants to get people having fun, then, fill em with viddles and booze for free. I find it hard to believe there is much to criticize there. As for the majority of boaters that do robe and harder runs but stay clear of PP. It's easy to see why with all these crappy responses in varied threads. When you already have your network, beta, and skill there is little need to post, maybe just an occasional read to ponder the foolishness that follows youth. All that to say thanks Todd, and hope its in on the downside of the bell, in a range that sub 6ft paddlers enjoy because there is no question that is the majority of robers. |
Posted By: RemAcct2
Date Posted: 19 May 2009 at 8:44am
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Posted By: toddg
Date Posted: 19 May 2009 at 9:06am
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Originally posted by leifkirchoff
I shouldn't have voiced an opinion. something we can all agree on. |
Posted By: RemAcct2
Date Posted: 19 May 2009 at 9:34am
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Posted By: Ellingferd
Date Posted: 19 May 2009 at 9:56am
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Todd, I am sorry the event didnt happen. I was really looking forward to it. I probably monitored the level more than anyone should, begging whatever higher power for it to be 6.2 or lower. I think the 666 plan is a great idea for the race in the future, and I am still looking forward to the event.
To Leif, Your last post was totally unnecessary. I have never met you, but your attitude on this forum is unfortunate and extremely negative. Dont get all pissed off because you think the event is "elite" because Todd has clearly illustrated that was not the point. Of course a class V race will only attract class V paddlers, but there is a great class IV run right there which, as Todd highlighted, has a takeout which was to be the site of the party (free beer for all? what the hell? why are people arguing with that?). What could be better than a few laps on canyon creek and an awesome party with free beer? If you dont care then dont write anything. Clearly you care enough to voice your opinion, claim you dont care about voicing your opinion, and then voicing it again. I dont want to create any animosity with someone I have not met, but you certainly dont make it easy. Hopefully all this can be put aside and the future date for the Robe race will go off without a hitch. Planning an event like this is beyond difficult, and is a stress Todd chose to take on. I am thankful someone is willing to put the effort into something like this, and I will be there when Robe Race 2009 happens. Jonathan |
Posted By: RemAcct2
Date Posted: 19 May 2009 at 10:03am
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Posted By: PaulGamache
Date Posted: 19 May 2009 at 10:15am
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This forum has to have one of the highest piss and bicker rates of any forum in any sport. (Not saying I've never been involved in it...) Starting w/ this one (which we all know isn't the first) I'm going to start counting the times people turn good topics and threads into this bullshit. PP pissy thread count = 1. Robe sucks, Seattle sucks, bicker battles blow. ------------- 27/320 & 1 bootie |
Posted By: toddg
Date Posted: 19 May 2009 at 10:15am
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leif kirchoff,
what is it with you man? i give you a well reasoned & balanced reply to your "advice", & the response you give me is a snide "After all, this sport is all about the core boaters" i think everyone who's reading this DOES agree that you could've kept that bullshit to yourself, per your own admission. and, clearly, that's the long & short of your opinion on my event. duly noted. now fuck off. |
Posted By: H2Ohta
Date Posted: 19 May 2009 at 10:27am
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I have never paddled Robe and I live in Wenatchee but if you give me at least 24 hours notice I can be there with at least a couple more folks from the Wenatchee Valley to help out. ------------- H2Ohta |
Posted By: toddg
Date Posted: 19 May 2009 at 11:02am
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h2ohta,
if you have fun on the ricochet section of icicle, then you'll love robe. & i love taking first-timers down it. once it drops into a more reasonable flow zone, i'll try to remember to log in & hit you up. |
Posted By: H2Ohta
Date Posted: 19 May 2009 at 11:05am
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Give me a holla as I would love to come over and check it out. mailto:chrisohta@hotmail.com - chrisohta@hotmail.com or PM Thx,Chris Ohta ------------- H2Ohta |
Posted By: jP
Date Posted: 19 May 2009 at 1:22pm
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Todd, I'm still down for the Robe Race. Maybe this was a bad month to plan it for? But I am still down.
Part of me thinks it's ironic though that last year's Robe Champs were out on it all weekend.
I know people seem to think that the race should be open to "Mere Mortal Robe Runners" such as myself, but Nature does what it does, and part of me thinks that maybe Rob and Ben just deserve the honor of retaining the Robes for 2009. Why? because a date was set, they showed up.
Now, I believe Aj and Brian also did. I don't know who else was there paddling last weekend.
Why do people have to be all insecure and cry "FOWL!! ELITISM!! ELITISM!!" at the slightest provocation? Why is it bad to be elite? I mean, look at me. I've been paddling longer than many of today's elite paddlers have been alive. They have taken the sport to more than a few levels that I likely may never attain. I'm not envious, or insecure about that. I embrace it and am inspired by it!! This inspiration fuels my own personal path of growth.
Paul is right. Seattle can be pretty lame. But Robe doesn't suck just because Paul doesn't like it, is afraid of it, (sorry Paul-you opened yourself up to that one) or whatever his trip is about it. Seattle on the other hand, and by extension it's paddling "community", has this weird passive aggressive TYRANNICAL REVERSE ELITISM.
------------- 🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋 |
Posted By: PowWrangler
Date Posted: 19 May 2009 at 2:00pm
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Yer sure doing a good job of making friends all around the PNW Leif. Paul - I think the majority of posts around here aren't bickering in nature, if you look at most of the current threads. The argument type stuff is fewer but more noticeable (obvious to you since you read and post in about all of them :) ) Not sure why despise this town so much and love to mention it in your posts on this site. I think it's about as good as cities get with all that you can do in and around the town. I have a lot of great non-paddler friends so maybe since my stake in the boating scene isn't as great as yours, it's nothing that ever bothers me. Todd, sorry to take part in c**ting your thread up. syotr |
Posted By: PaulGamache
Date Posted: 19 May 2009 at 2:25pm
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Originally posted by PowWrangler Paul - I think the majority of posts around here aren't bickering in nature, if you look at most of the current threads. The argument type stuff is fewer but more noticeable (obvious to you since you read and post in about all of them :) ) Not sure why despise this town so much and love to mention it in your posts on this site. I think it's about as good as cities get with all that you can do in and around the town. I have a lot of great non-paddler friends so maybe since my stake in the boating scene isn't as great as yours, it's nothing that ever bothers me. .Dude it was a joke. Thank you for a perfect example of what I'm talking about. JP: Yes..I am scared of Robe, not my cup of tea. No it doesn't suck but that's my excuse for never wanting to paddle it...just feel like the river is trying to hurt me down there. EDIT: I was going to post again but that would be obnoxious. I'm over being brought into the pissing matches (why do I have a feeling by even just posting that someone will find the need to post about posting that...) If you'd like to get a hold of me in the future email is paulgamache at gmail.com. Thanks for the community resource, best of luck w/ the pissing matches....ever wonder why sites like boof.com almost never have the BS that's frequent here and on MTNBuzz? ------------- 27/320 & 1 bootie |
Posted By: PowWrangler
Date Posted: 19 May 2009 at 2:36pm
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Originally posted by PaulGamache Dude it was a joke. Thank you for a perfect example of what I'm talking about. oh. hahahahaha |
Posted By: jP
Date Posted: 19 May 2009 at 2:59pm
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Well, Paul, for the record it scares me too. And I've accumulated enough trips in there to get into a few situations where things got out of my hands and I felt like the river was trying to hurt me. So you're not unreasonable with that perception. It's important to mind one's P's and Q's in there. It has a trashy nature that surrounds you but doesn't necessarily pounce on you until the law of averages creeps up on you. It's good to be relatively confident you're not likely to flip in there. Having said that I think the rapids and drops are pretty cool and have offered up some pretty damn fun rides. Here's another reason why the Robe Race is a challenge that I won't take likely: It's a LONG RACE. The top finishing times were between 33 and 35 minutes last year, right? There's an endurance factor for sure. It's a far cry from the Icicle Race with its 6:00 course and similar races of shorter durations. As Seattle is concerned, hey, it is what we make of it. It's 4 hours from B.C. 4 hours from Hood River, and 2.5 from Leavenworth. Anywhere in between offers up LOTS of stuff to paddle year round. There's also world class sea kayaking very close by, and as shitty as the economy is anywhere right now, I'm glad to be here. It's hard to think of a better place for me to be as far as paddling is concerned. ------------- 🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋 |
Posted By: jP
Date Posted: 19 May 2009 at 3:01pm
BTW what's with all these blank LeifKirchoff posts that say "Edited...today at..."? ------------- 🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋 |
Posted By: ALCOHOLIC
Date Posted: 19 May 2009 at 4:45pm
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Just for the record... I've done robe 3 TIMES!!! hahaha how you like me now! Ummm.. I know this is a little off the subject but does anyone have some money I could borrow? ------------- Masturbating Monkey |
Posted By: James
Date Posted: 19 May 2009 at 4:49pm
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I got 2 cents for you Jake... Let me know when you want it |
Posted By: kayakingsucks
Date Posted: 19 May 2009 at 5:13pm
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Originally posted by James As for the majority of boaters that do robe and harder runs but stay clear of PP. It's easy to see why with all these crappy responses in varied threads. When you already have your network, beta, and skill there is little need to post, maybe just an occasional read to ponder the foolishness that follows youth. James, I think you nailed me with this description. As I've mentioned to you in the past I think you've provided a great service to the local paddling community with PP. I do feel that, for me, the signal to noise ratio is pretty low, and as a result I typically stay away and just go boating. I'm also a little bummed that many frequent posters hide behind a cute alias. Please at least include your real name in your signature or profile. I'd personally be more likely to participate in the discourse if I knew who I was addressing.
Originally posted by wetmouse It's good to be relatively confident you're not likely to flip in there. Having said that I think the rapids and drops are pretty cool and have offered up some pretty damn fun rides. Flipping is more of a concern when the water is lower and more rocks abound. Of course the higher levels are faster and more powerful so it's still best to stay on line and upright, but at least you won't be as likely to kiss a rock.
Originally posted by toddg news flash: robe is harder in the mid 5's than it is the upper 5's I like the 666 rule Todd proposed. It is completely reasonable to have a high-level cutoff. Nobody will think less of you for opting out of paddling Robe at a particular level or even at all. It is clearly a serious run. If you'd like to race (or safety boat) at lower water, let Todd know your cutoff and we can take that into account.
This event was a huge success last year, and I would love to see something like that again. We could set the cutoff even lower if it would encourage more people to participate. As Todd mentioned, the goal is a unique PNW community event.
Todd has worked hard to put this together, and was understandably frustrated by the recent lack of communication & committment. I'm psyched about all the positive support on this forum since Sunday. The comments about level comfort zones and this being a bad weekend due to competing paddling options are great feedback. Keep it coming. Let's make this thing happen!
Finally,
Originally posted by PaulGamache This forum has to have one of the highest piss and bicker rates... Haven't you heard of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwins_Law - Godwin's Law ? :-)
-Andrew Oberhardt
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Posted By: jP
Date Posted: 20 May 2009 at 6:35pm
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Originally posted by kayakingsucks
I do feel that, for me, the signal to noise ratio is pretty low, and as a result I typically stay away and just go boating. -Andrew Oberhardt That's a good way to put it.
Robe is an incredible run. And yeah, it smoothes out with more water, but that doesn't make me any more comfortable flipping in it!!
I 'd cite 5.4' as the level where I notice more fluffy fluidity. Not sure that I've noticed the chaos of 5.6' specificly, but many runs I've routinely padlded have these "bad hair" zones" in their medium ranges that are along the lines of what you are describing with the 5.6' flows. When I'm on it at 5.8' I start feeling like I'm really getting strongarmed by the river here and there. After a trip on it at 6.2', well, let's just say that the inside drawers of the 'ol drysuit need a cleaning. Gets kinda brown in there.
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Posted By: ALCOHOLIC
Date Posted: 21 May 2009 at 12:25am
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aww man James I knew if anyone would come through it would be you brother.. or wait, are we talking two cents or two sense? cause I need the CENTS.. My counselor has been trying to give me his two sense for a while now and I don't think it's really working.. or... yea whatever... Anyway, can we make it two dollars? I could probably make it over this weekend if so... "I want my two dollars!" haha remember that? You know I was locked up with the actual dude that played the kid in that part! He wasn't a kid anymore though, big ass scary lookin white dude with braids in his hair, pretty cool though.. He was the prison barber.. Wait.. Quit trying to change the subject buddy I see what your up too.. So you think I could get that before this weekend? I will call you.. Oh and does anyone want to start going to AA meetings with me next week? Say like tuesday or something? ------------- Masturbating Monkey |
Posted By: water wacko
Date Posted: 21 May 2009 at 1:02pm
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JP, you runnin' 'the brown' now? The brine? I hear it's a full class harder than 'the shizzle'. ------------- "Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." ~Howard Thurman |