Can't find a river
Printed From: ProfessorPaddle.com
Category: General
Forum Name: Whitewater Forum
Forum Discription: Open Discussion Forum. Whitewater related subjects only
URL: http://www.professorpaddle.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9238
Printed Date: 04 May 2025 at 8:42pm
Topic: Can't find a river
Posted By: dave
Subject: Can't find a river
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2010 at 1:45pm
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Here is a stupid question.
I cant find the information for Robe anywhere? It isnt called Robe on the river page, is there a way to search for runs that are not named by thier river name? If not maybe we should have some sort of a search engine?
Also the default font of 1 hurts my eyes, it is so small...3 is much better. ------------- Nomad |
Replies:
Posted By: dave
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2010 at 1:47pm
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I finally found it but had to use Google to do so...pain in the a-- ------------- Nomad |
Posted By: Larry
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2010 at 2:01pm
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The river is S. Fork of the Stillaguamish. And the section above Robe would be more suited for you.
"If you have to ask, you can't afford it."
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Posted By: Tobin
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2010 at 2:04pm
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Originally posted by dave
Also the default font of 1 hurts my eyes, it is so small...3 is much better. Getting old sucks huh Dave? ------------- Sure? |
Posted By: James
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2010 at 2:15pm
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Err.. I think you meant Dave is starting to get old. Or at least his posts are  |
Posted By: jP
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2010 at 2:17pm
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I believe it says in parenthesis "Robe Canyon Run". There's always the guidebook, you know...
------------- 🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋 |
Posted By: dave
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2010 at 3:33pm
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PP only shows the parent river in the rivers page. That is a problem if you are looking for a run and dont know the river name.
I am thinking about stepping up to Robe at the 5.2ft level. Dave said you can portage most of the hard stuff if you dont feel comfortable. I am hoping to go down with him my first time down, because we are about the same skill level and he respects that. Not like other boaters that like to talk you into doing things you are not comfortable with. ------------- Nomad |
Posted By: dave
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2010 at 3:34pm
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Originally posted by Tobin
Yes, it does suck when it gets hard to read the fine print!Originally posted by dave Also the default font of 1 hurts my eyes, it is so small...3 is much better. Getting old sucks huh Dave? ------------- Nomad |
Posted By: jP
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2010 at 7:12pm
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There's some powerful water in there, so be careful (assuming you are serious, it's hard to tell). I would recommend a few intermediary steps before going in. I would try to construct a steady diet of Heavy Class IV for a few weeks leading up to your trip. Go down and Run the Truss. Eat Icicle for breakfast for a few weekends. I wouldn't go into Robe planning on portaging a lot- it'll make for a long day for you and those you are with. ------------- 🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋 |
Posted By: RPMMAX
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2010 at 8:05pm
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Mabey Dave should do the Farmlands, people drown on the
Truss ------------- RPMMAX |
Posted By: jP
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2010 at 8:45pm
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Good point, Bill! Farmlands (2-3x), then Truss(2-3x), then Robe!! ------------- 🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋 |
Posted By: dave
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2010 at 10:44pm
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I just here everyone say robe is fun, and I need some fun. But now everyone says scary stuff. So I will work on easier stuff for a while. Plus, I feel I am as good or just the same skill as some people I kayak with that do Robe. Certainly more time and years on the river than most. ------------- Nomad |
Posted By: chipmaney
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2010 at 12:19pm
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i agree with JP, dave. you don't go from paddling the MM and Green and SFSno to running Robe. It's awesome that you want to step it up, but there is a progression....I spent the last 2 years running stuff like Foss and Farmlands with an eye toward the Truss. When I get comfortable on the Truss, then maybe Robe...
------------- sitting all alone on a mountain by a river that has no end |
Posted By: jP
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2010 at 12:35pm
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yeah, it's important to have some sort of a realistic perspective. I'm pretty sure you've hiked in there, Dave, so I think you've seen the first three rapids. Robe makes the Green Truss seem pretty casual, not that it is. If you go back to the Bennett Book (I still think that book is mostly spot on with most of its descriptions), the Robe description is one of the ones with the disclaimer "Not for part-time Class V paddlers". I know I'm a conservative paddler, but I do get out quite a bit, on a wide variety of what this state has to offer. There are days that I go in there and shred it up, the Robe Gnomes grinning and giving me High Fives. There are also days where I'm not up to running Robe, and days that I'm game, but enter the canyon with caution. Sometimes the Gnomes are in a foul mood and they slap me down. This is after 30 some trips in there . Perhaps because of so many trips. The law of averages can catch up with a paddler in there. There was a brief zenith when I had become familiar enough with the run that I felt really casual in there. Since then enough things have occured that I've returned to a more cautionary approach. ------------- 🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋 |
Posted By: tiziak
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2010 at 8:41am
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I say just get some Metal! and follow Daves line! ------------- If you don't know where you are going, any road will get you there. Daniel Patrinellis 360.434.4616 |
Posted By: STLboater
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2010 at 9:03am
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if you like being a baseball flying into a catchers mitt...
------------- Kayak Academy Whitewater Instructor |
Posted By: water wacko
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2010 at 9:36am
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Dave, if you have a crew that wants to make a full day of Robe and is willing to look lots and wait for folks to portage things, it might not be a bad idea. That said, some things might be so easy to portage. You might have more actual fun doing something easier, like Vance Creek on the OP or Clear Creek up north with less critical prescision and more carefree lines. Don't get hurt Dave!! I like your posts. :O What the 2 harderst things you've run?
ps I have no idea where that rivers page is, either. |
Posted By: dave
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2010 at 10:26am
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Thanks, I am going to do some easier creeking first. But I do want to spend the day in there someday and just take it real slow to get to know the run. The hardest runs I have done so far are Clear Creek in Colorado (did some class V but portaged most of the really hard V stuff, but still a most difficult creek), Icicle creek (log limbo section, twice), FITW (at different levels, lots of times for a few years now), Cooper (ran this several times at lower flows). 21 years now of all around any class IV and III local rivers in Washington, Colorado and Oregon. ------------- Nomad |
Posted By: water wacko
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2010 at 10:36am
| I don't know Clear Creek in CO, but Icicle and FITW are both good training, not to mention the Cooper is great for working on different types of boofing. Boofing is a vital skill for Robe, as well as a fast roll. I feel very confident when I have a bomber rool that's quick. Playboating is great cross training. The number one cross-skill you get is flip-over/roll-up/repeat. Work all the holes and waves you can. Eventually you will develop your own quick little tricks. Love to help you out with it, Dave. Good luck, bro! |
Posted By: huckin harms
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2010 at 11:42am
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here's a little vid showing off the finer boofs, though some things have changed since this was shot....
http://vimeo.com/929903 - http://vimeo.com/929903
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Posted By: jP
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2010 at 1:42pm
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I suggest you get more comfortable on Upper Ici at flows HIGHER than you did it (last year, I think- that trip I was on with you). Lower flows on Upper Ici don't approximate Robe's PUSH.
Pretty much you should go in there with an attitude that you're going to run Last Sunshine. It may be the biggest move in there, but it's not the hardest rapid by any means. Even the no name rapids can match the challenge of the harder, named rapids. I ran Robe with someone who styled Sunshine and then got baddly hurt further down-almost at the end of the hardest drops. It was one of the major rapids. We had to hike him out and I went back in the next day with Rob to get my boat and his (Rob paddled the injured guy's boat out).
Not trying to discourage your aspirations at all- just want to provide some perspective- something often lacking in the sport today. "GO FOR IT!" sounds great until you are in a remote canyon trying to assess if some one can get up and walk, if they have spinal injury, ect. And just because something gets run 200 times without incident doesn't mean that something horrible can't happen on the 201st, 308th, of 475th time it is run. Your obligation to yourself as a paddler is to make sure to the extent you can that you are not that paddler when the number comes up.
You want to be boating STRONG in the days and weeks leading up to your first trip into Robe Canyon. And One trip is hardly enough to "get to know it". More like 6-10, provided you run them all in a compressed chunk of time. Otherwise it will take more trips if they are spread out throughout the year. At least that's what others have told me. I got to learn if fairly quick by lots of back to back trips in there.
That said it's a fine run. Lots of big moves. It challenges your ability to paddle with precision in turbulent, chaotic water. Something about the way the rocks lay in the current, I guess. Ici by comparrison seems more orderly with its currents and how they flow- the current adheres to more of a consistant pattern that doesn't throw you off line as much. Robe is surgy and boily in a peculiar way. ------------- 🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋 |
Posted By: chipmaney
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2010 at 4:42pm
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I have seen this video before and watched it for pleasure. This time I watched it to determine the required skill level. Skill level > Current Chipper level... I for one take the position that if I can't paddle most of the river (say, for example, everything but BB and BZ on the Truss), then what's the point? I ain't gonna out there to walk down the bank. I would rather go paddle something where I can stay in my boat and GET BETTER.... Robe isn't going anywhere and I know at some point I will be ready....until that time comes, I would rather go paddle something on which I can stay in my boat and GET BETTER.... ------------- sitting all alone on a mountain by a river that has no end |
Posted By: jP
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2010 at 5:31pm
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That's how I see things, too, Chipper. I don't see the appeal in boating over your head, but I see people doing it all the time. I think it retards your growth as a paddler. It's not really possible to imprint good technique on harder runs. It's much better to imprint good technique on easier water where the consequences aren't so huge, and then take your good technique to the harder runs. I know a lot of paddlers for example with sh+tty ass rolls who boat really hard stuff. If it takes more than 2 attempts to roll up, you should go back to the pool, or stay off of IV+ and V until you work the bugs out. Say for example you run some easy drop above, let's say, the approach to a waterfall and you flip...  To more clearly address your original problem "can't find a river" (BTW if I wanted to be more a dick than I already am, I could have had a whole lotta fun with that comment...see examples below) Every river's proper river name has (most of) the runnable sections listed after it: they are even numbered. The one for Robe is #3 for example and stated thus: "Verlot to Granite Falls (Robe Canyon Run)" If you couldn't find that, you weren't looking. "Can't find a river? In Washington?! Man, kayaking must not be your sport!"  -or- "Can't find a river? It's safe to say that Old Man Robe Can't hurt you!" the possibilites are endless... ------------- 🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋 |
Posted By: tiziak
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2010 at 5:38pm
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Well, I dont know. I, for one, am comfortable on Truss. But I am not comfortable running BB. I just dont like it. My skills are there and I am confident when I am on the run. I scout it and I see the line. I just dont like the consequences. So, Im not going to just not run the entire run because of one drop out of many, many quality drops. I have met countless people who love LWS but they dont run Spirit and sometimes dont run Stovepipe. Theres a rapid on Ernie's that I probably wont be running for a long while, but I love the rest of it. Seems a bit harsh to me. So what then? Do we just forgo all these quality runs because of one
ledge or rapid?
------------- If you don't know where you are going, any road will get you there. Daniel Patrinellis 360.434.4616 |
Posted By: jP
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2010 at 5:51pm
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Originally posted by chipmaney I for one take the position that if I can't paddle most of the river (say, for example, everything but BB and BZ on the Truss), then what's the point? I ain't gonna out there to walk down the bank. I think you missed Chipper's Qualifier. Maybe he didn't craft his sentences perfectly to make it clear, but I think he meant that if he were to portage Meatbal, Bob's, Double Drop, and Zigzag Canyon IN ADDITION to Big Bro and BZ, what's the point. Hell, I don't always drop Big Bro. Ran BZ once, and I'm open to the possibility of running it again, but it's a wait n see kinda thing to be decided just upstream. Still waiting to feel the magic that will compel me to get "Spiritual"... ------------- 🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋 |
Posted By: tiziak
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2010 at 5:56pm
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My bad.
------------- If you don't know where you are going, any road will get you there. Daniel Patrinellis 360.434.4616 |
Posted By: jP
Date Posted: 01 Mar 2010 at 6:22pm
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No worries. You should be able to go in and run the bulk of the run, was his point. If portaging a pinnacle crux rapid or drop shaves off some of the overall stress, that's cool. I deliberatly use that as a strategy for myself to tune down the stress of a run. I drove all the way to Idaho to run the N frk of the P. I'll be damned if I don't run Jacob's. So I did (my second time, second visit). Well I had to rodeo my way out of that monstrous ledge and it was not fun. So next day I ran everything but Jacob's. Just making my mind up like that allowed me to relax more and enjoy the rest of the run. I did it in The Chelan gorge, too. I was the first to run Entrance Exam in 10 years. I had to race Brad to the top to make sure he didn't run it first. Yes his balls are bigger than mine, but I knew If I watched him run it first, he'd screw it up, make it look ugly, and then I'd want to portage with my tail between my legs. So I ran it, got stuck in the hole at the bottom, but got out quickly-(It was STICKIER than a Porcupine covered in fresh Aquaseal surfing Rodeo Hole). When Brad ran it he got stuck way worse, for much longer. I would have swam out if I missed my early opportunity to get out and took the hole ride he did. But the next day the flow was higher, so I walked it. I'd already come to do what I wanted to do. We talked about that, though, and there are so few drops in The Chelan Gorge that if you walk more than one (not counting the VI "Pinnacle"), you are seriously widdling the run down. Another factor to consider: Who is leading you down? Who do you really want to lead you down? Chances are they are veteran paddlers, and/or vets of the run in question. Yeah they should respect your sensibilities, but you also need to respect theirs. It's a two way street. I can tell you that most class V boaters I know don't mind if you gotta portage a drop or three. But since they already may be slowing their desired pace down to show you down the run, they probably don't want to wait while you portage the entire run. It's also worth bearing in mind that portaging takes more energy. So the more you portage, the more tired you will get. In Ernie's even scouting saps your energy, necessary though it is. too me it all comes back to WHY I paddle: to feel an intimate connection with the river. To boat smooth, clean lines in sync with the rhythms of the river or creek. It's like sex. Sure you can get in there, do your business, get off... and no matter what it'll feel good. But if you tune into your partner (in this case, The River) with just a tiny bit more awareness- you'll get exponentially more out of it. She'll appreciate you more for it, too, in the long run. No bullsh*t. I gaurantee you'll Find The River if you put those paddle strokes in just a little bit... Deeper ------------- 🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋 |
Posted By: dave
Date Posted: 02 Mar 2010 at 3:14pm
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This thread is pretty funny, while you guys were posting yesterday, we were on the river tearing it up. I miss some boofs here and there and I am working on it, but if I run Robe, it will be with a full day of scouting and portaging drops just to check it out for my first time. I may not fire up the whole run for a long time, but I would love to just get in there and portage the hard stuff with someone Like Dave who has run it a lot and is willing to show us around in there. The videos remind me of how fast Clear Creek runs and it is similar in the crazy way the water runs too. Clear Creek scared me silly, but It was still fun. Clear Creek has also killed a lot of people and I mean lots...Check the past news articles on the web and you will see. But, I still got on it and gave it my best shot, that is how you learn, and you can always portage stuff on any river if you feel the need. I doesn't matter how many other creeks I run, if I am not ready to go into Robe at this point in my kayaking then I will probably never be ready. I have almost as many years on the river as you do JP. I just need to get the boof down a little better... ------------- Nomad |
Posted By: dave
Date Posted: 02 Mar 2010 at 3:39pm
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http://southwestpaddler.com/docs/splatte8.html - http://southwestpaddler.com/docs/splatte8.html A little taste of Clear Creek. Colorado Rivers are much harder than Washington rivers and the classifications should be read as one level harder than ours. We are spoiled here with nice rivers, over there they will rip your boat to shreds and your face if your not careful. I got two black eyes over there and never had one here and also broke a boat on Clear Creek. ------------- Nomad |
Posted By: Ellingferd
Date Posted: 02 Mar 2010 at 3:47pm
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Dude, just go run it with a few people who have run it before and are willing to deal with portaging, swims, etc. I would recommend 5.1 to 5.2.
There is a trail all the way until Garbage, more or less, you could walk back on. I have seen hikers watching at faceplant so you could for sure walk out there, which is probably the most difficult rapid (of course this is arguable).It only gets easier, or more spread out, from there. Worst case scenario you run the first boof, portage to the bottom of last sunshine, and continue to evaluate whether you will run or portage the rest of the rapids. Or, you run every rapid, swim a few, get rolled some, roll back up. You know, basically kayaking. Dont put so much thought into it, its not like someone is going to lock you in there once you drop in, just walk out on the trail if you think you are in over your head. I am all for evaluating skill level and appropriateness of runs but it sounds like you really want to run this thing, so just do it. |
Posted By: dave
Date Posted: 02 Mar 2010 at 3:48pm
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I have run everything on Clear Creek, except Rigor Mortis
Rapid. It was classed a VI back in the day, but people have been running it so it is V+ now. I was in my 20's back then, but none the less was running solid V when most of you guys were in diapers, so I probably can handle a portage scout run in Robe...I ran Clear Creek for 4 months solid, two black eyes, one dislocated shoulder and one broken boat. Since then I have been very leary to run V stuff and have a lot of respect for V. That is why you guys don't see me doing a lot of V.
------------- Nomad |
Posted By: water wacko
Date Posted: 02 Mar 2010 at 4:43pm
| Dave, I heard you talkin about 'fun' awhile back in this thread. It doesn't have to be hard to be fun. I have fun looking at new stuff. Not the middle middle today? Sweet. Part of the fun of it is actually seeing what you run. I love nailing a new run. I dig agonizing over a new run. It's part of it. A skill to work on is reading and running harder rapids you know and blue angeling down some 4 stuff behind someone who you trust, who knows the run. It makes getting down a lot easier. Once you learn techniques like that on class IV as you become comfortable in class V you can apply the same things. It is all in the head. Hope I don't sound like I'm soap boxing, I'm on your side, Dave. |