Green River Alert!
Printed From: ProfessorPaddle.com
Category: General
Forum Name: Whitewater Forum
Forum Discription: Open Discussion Forum. Whitewater related subjects only
URL: http://www.professorpaddle.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=12640
Printed Date: 02 May 2025 at 2:20am
Topic: Green River Alert!
Posted By: jon!
Subject: Green River Alert!
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2012 at 10:51pm
River wide tree just before entrance to pipeline rapid |
Replies:
Posted By: thad2000
Date Posted: 07 Nov 2012 at 4:12am
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This is on headworks.. Might be possible to go river left around island. :) ------------- why not! |
Posted By: tiziak
Date Posted: 07 Nov 2012 at 6:40am
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Boof that thing!
------------- If you don't know where you are going, any road will get you there. Daniel Patrinellis 360.434.4616 |
Posted By: chipmaney
Date Posted: 07 Nov 2012 at 9:13pm
|
Originally posted by slickhorn
Am I missing something? Looks runnable?Left of the island is good to go, I run over there all there time. Couple different channels, generally enough flow over 900 or so. I think what you are missing is that this information is germane to Class III boaters.... ------------- sitting all alone on a mountain by a river that has no end |
Posted By: thad2000
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2012 at 4:20am
|
Love the use of germane.. :) I figure the run is one people might take first time people on... etc. So, it's good to be aware of hazards.. also, left of island was pretty scrappy.
Anyway, It's better safe than sorry. I'd much rather get a couple of jeers for being over cautious than feel bad about omitting info that might have helped some one. That's my two cents. ------------- why not! |
Posted By: jon!
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2012 at 7:45am
| I had to look up the meaning of germane. You are right but as a new boater I was taught to stay away from wood hazards because something evil is lurking waiting to cause a bad day. |
Posted By: Mark47n
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2012 at 9:26am
|
looked at it yesterday. lot's of branches sticking up, thought there is a spot that you could boof over. Other side of the island isn't bad, it was runnable at around 700-800. If i were to take new boaters down it, I would go around on the other side of the island. ------------- You mean I'm supposed to wear something UNDER my spray skirt? Where's the fun in that? |
Posted By: jP
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2012 at 2:46pm
|
Originally posted by chipmaney
I think what you are missing is that this information is germane to Class III boaters.... Well, I don't speak German. I'm 'Merican, Gotdamn it! 
Actually, I agree with Chipper- it is a matter of relevance given the stretch it is reportedly on... Which brings me to a little issue I got to now raise: You said it is at a rapid called "Pipeline", then someone said it was on the Headworks stretch. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't there a rapid named Pipeline in the Upper Gorge, downstream on the same dammed river? Dude, HOW the fu*k and WHEN the fu*k did we end up with two rapids with the same name on the same dammed river?! |
Posted By: jP
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2012 at 2:52pm
|
Not that I blame any participants on this thread for this tragicly idiotic oversite by the paddling community as a whole. I mean, if having two rapids with the same name on the same dammed river doesn't create confusion well I don't know what does.
Seriously, its bad enough that Washington boaters have a woefully inadequate imagination when it comes to naming rapids. Its bad enough that we recycle the same ten names over and over "Let's Make A Deal" "The Flume" "Double Drop" Tryin to call any rapid with a row of rocks in it The Picket Fence n sh*t... But this is way worse because I thought, and would have continued to think Jon was refering to the Upper Gorge rapid, had Thad not pointed it out. |
Posted By: jP
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2012 at 3:05pm
|
And thanks for providing more detail, Slick-
But one of these dammed names got to go, and my guess is, sorry Headworks lovers- The Upper Green's rapids are more defined, more established. Pipeline in the Upper Gorge was probably named WAY BEFORE the rapid on the Head Works stretch was thought to even deserve a name. If I got that backwards, well, somebody school me. People are gonna shrug it off "there's jP making a big deal about nothing". But a user obviously thought posting this thread with a pic was important to "alert" people. That is part of what these forums are for, afterall. And, Jon! I want to emphasise that I applaud your effort to bring this to people's attention, because it is "germane". My advice or gentle critique might be to add more info in the thread title next time citing the name of the stretch, and doing so again in your post. There are four guidebook stretches on the Green. But a more important issue is: Who is leading beginners out on the Headworks and telling them "this rapid is called Pipeline". There is the real source of confusion. |
Posted By: jP
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2012 at 3:24pm
|
Haha!! No, Slick--
We need an emoticon reading: THIS THREAD IS WORTHLESS WITHOUT TEXT, or um... Some detail beyond a picture and a blurb saying its on a river that aparently has two rapids with the same name. I mean, stop and consider WHY we name rapids. Pillow Rock- named because of an identifiable, obvious landmark BOB's Falls- named because Bob got trashed there. A warning so hopefully it won't happen to you. Rodeo Hole- the go-to play spot Sweet's Falls- John Sweet ran it first (I knew him as a kid) Meatlocker- well, this was named after I was there and took the sneak line around it. Not sure why it got named this, but it does a good job of inspiring me NOT to run it. The point is, names of rapids serve a purpose. When and where possible they should quickly illuminate and provide beta about themselves encapsulated in their namesake. Hot Pocket. A great name to a feature in Lunch Hole rapid (in itself a well named rapid for multiple reasons). And Hot Pocket was tacked on much later, but its relevence is twice served: not only does it cleverly describe a play feature, it fits the theme of the rapid it resides in. The namer of this feature deserves a gold star for employing his imagination. Well named rapids and features are more easily remembered because of their cleverness. Like a band name, a brand name, ect. Now, its been a long time since I ran headworks. Maybe the name of the rapid in question makes sense on the face of it, but obviously a whole group of paddlers are guilty of some oversite here by choosing a name already being used downstream, assuming the Uppe Gorge rapid was named first (I don't know for sure this is the case, but it is almost certain and most likely). |
Posted By: James
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2012 at 3:24pm
| The fact that you did not include S-Turn in your list makes me wonder if perhaps that name should be used more often, I mean I think every run should at least have one! |
Posted By: Mark47n
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2012 at 3:25pm
|
This isn't really a rapid. It's just a messy eddy that now has a tree coming across the top of it...all the way across the river. It does have the pipeline running over it on a bridge, however and is located upstream of the powder room.
------------- You mean I'm supposed to wear something UNDER my spray skirt? Where's the fun in that? |
Posted By: jP
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2012 at 3:36pm
|
Dam it, James, I didn't have TIME to list them all! I had an outpouring of Melleville scale thoughts to get out
But, is ONE S-Turn enough per run? Cuz damn (don't dam the Ici): Icicle has a lot of unnamed stretches. And a boater is pretty much S-Turnin down the whole damn thing!
Yeah, Mark (thanks for your input BTW), I realize that, as well as the fact that I appear to be blowing this out of proportion. As with a lot of similar topics, I chose to use this one as a platform to discuss some related concepts relevant to the thread. In this case, COMMUNICATION. How we use these forums to alert each other of hazards, and the names we use, why we use them, and why we need to think a little about them. If there was only one whitewater paddler on the planet, there would be no point in naming rapids. They exist solely for us to utilize in our communications, and therefore should not be misleading, or vague. Plus, naming a rapid with a cool catchy name is fun! |
Posted By: jP
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2012 at 3:44pm
|
Originally posted by slickhorn
dafuq is the powder room? I ain't never heard ANY of these names before....Proud to help the OT drift ... ;) I know, I think I been guilty of taking things off topic a bit lately. Whether we know every name every boater comes up with isn't important. Never Heard of the Powder Room, either, but go to the Rivers Page for Headworks and it IS listed. That brought a smile of satisfaction to me when I just went n checked. Rest assured: if we need to know the name, we've probably heard of it. Boulder Drop, The Wall (a.k.a. Quarter Mile), Lava Dam Falls, ect. |
Posted By: jP
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2012 at 3:49pm
|
Are we up to a two pager yet?
Talk about the Tower of Babel... |
Posted By: James
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2012 at 3:53pm
| No doubt.. but I can dig being behind a keyboard since I got my double day on Clearwater this weekend!!! Mmm |
Posted By: not-very-clever
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2012 at 3:53pm
|
yeah james, i agree, we need more s-turns. we also need more of the follow: The needle house rocks island drop ledge drop entrance exam landslide last call we definitely need a lot more: canyon creeks wooooooo that was a lot of brainstorming |
Posted By: jP
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2012 at 6:08pm
|
Dude! I ran 15 mi. Creek!! (Flows into the Columbia near The Dalles) A novelty run for sure, but just one of thode Bennie Book Classics I had to check out. Ran it w/ Tom, Kira, and Hans two winters ago.
It has a few interesting drops in it fo sure. And some wierd farmer/rancher stuff in the river, some barbed wire, and a stinky efluent w/ mysterious foam, but hey... |
Posted By: Mr.Grinch
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2012 at 10:01pm
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In other Green news..... The Lower Gorge is free o wood (@ 1k cfs, at least). ------------- nnln. |
Posted By: jon!
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2012 at 6:29pm
| It is more than possible that I just messed up the description due to ignorence...and alcohol. This horse is more than dead but I hope everyone now knows there is a tree across the river on Headworks. It's up to you to boof or portage.How cool is it to make a post and get jP to comment? |
Posted By: jon!
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2012 at 6:35pm
| I meant ignorance |
Posted By: the_NW
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2012 at 8:42am
| what is the current flow on this section, hasn't been updated in awhile anyone know? |
Posted By: Brmarkey
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2012 at 9:10am
| Non of the guages have been updated since Yesterday. Whats the deal? Im sure the green has come up in the last 8h. It was pouring out this way all last night. |
Posted By: Dale
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2012 at 10:25am
| This is the gauge I use for the Green... http://waterdata.usgs.gov/usa/nwis/uv?12106700 and this is the forecast gauge that will give you an idea of what they may or may not release whenever... http://www.nwrfc.noaa.gov/river/station/flowplot/flowplot.cgi?id=HHDW1 |
Posted By: ru-tang
Date Posted: 12 Nov 2012 at 8:53pm
|
I would like to clarify some names on the Green River Gorge, because due to the lack of real names for real rapids, I began naming them myself. Here is the short list of names- with short descriptions Witches Dildo- move on RR carving through holes and right under/next to a large tall undercut tower Suction- I think stupid people call this rapid pipeline, but I have heard about six rapids on the green called that Goldilocks- JP inspired this one when he called out the mama, papa, and baby boof right in a row Ride the Tiger- more of a series of moves than a rapid, its along the wall towards the take out- run as left as you can go and hold on! The wall right about the waterfall in the gorge Fun Forever- The reason we all boat- and also the name of the waterfall- the proper line is to paddle into the curtain and give a paddle twirl and yell its true name at the top of your lungs Fairy Glen- the caves right below the waterfall- you can paddle into and through them at the right levels The Black Gates of Mordor- the big black gate above the Tiger Seattle boaters suck at naming rapids! |
Posted By: James
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2012 at 8:49am
|
Originally posted by ru-tang Seattle boaters suck at naming rapids! Fairy Glen.... Really? I have always called that "The Faggots Cove" there are always a ton of little sticks and stuff that collect in there. Oh and Lord of the Rings references were banned a few years back when Sauron filed a moratorium because too many people were making light a place meant to be dark. It is kinda like Communists in the 50s and 60s, you just didn't do it, but now it's all the rage. I am sure a time will come again when you are free to frolick the shire. |
Posted By: jP
Date Posted: 13 Nov 2012 at 12:42pm
|
So, since I frequently paddle into there (under the Franklin Bridge), are you insinuating James, that I am a little stick?
I call it the Yoda cave. And it is best explored at flows above 3200 because the skinny slot right under the falls is open and you can paddle all the way through, faggot or not. If that makes me a faggot or a little stick, I'm cool wit it because that's a fun line in a special place! FYI while we are playing the name game, old schoolers have informed me that that area is the original Paradise, rather than the play freature downstream. But I'm sure a much larger portion of the kayaking populace associates the playspot with more conotations of "Paradise", so, not trying to suggest a change in that. See, jon!, we got ourselves a genuine 2 pager going here. Now that's team work. If we are lucky (or unlucky depending how you see things) we'll get to three pages of more digital clutter. Fortunately the relevant details of your thread are all located near the beginning of it :) |
Posted By: jon!
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2012 at 6:45pm
| I don't even know what we are talking about anymore. Did'nt it have something to to with Germans? |
Posted By: dave
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2012 at 7:01pm
|
I always like paddling with different people in there. JP and Fish have shown me many different roughts in there. Like the cave and several little boof trails. Being a long time Green fan it is fun to learn new stuff in there from different people. ------------- Nomad |
Posted By: mokelumnekid
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2012 at 5:31pm
| I really hope someone (cough, cough) takes out that crappy strainer on Headworks. We can't run new boater trips with that in play, as some folks flip right at that spot and it is also a good spot to for new boaters to practice ferry/eddy out into current. Sure one can portage...Just saying. |
Posted By: FLUID
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2012 at 3:00am
|
Originally posted by mokelumnekid
Isn't there a little flood channel on the river left of this you could sneak down and take folks through that way ? pending it's still clean ?... at most moderate flows that route goes..... the channel comes in down stream of this wood issue where the real ferry and s-turn practice spot is with better current right under the bridge.
I really hope someone (cough, cough) takes out that crappy strainer on Headworks. We can't run new boater trips with that in play, as some folks flip right at that spot and it is also a good spot to for new boaters to practice ferry/eddy out into current. Sure one can portage...Just saying. |
Posted By: thad2000
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2012 at 5:03am
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True. Shallow..- but should get better. Ps- go to bed so you can boat! ------------- why not! |
Posted By: not-very-clever
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2012 at 8:48am
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is it worth it to call the Howard Hanson dam fellows and get them in touch with Cliff Mass... "Hello, is this the Dam Operators? Have you see the forecast? There is a lot of damn water coming down next week, and it would be in the best damn interest of the dam to release a ton of water this weekend before the big floods next week!" or maybe this would work: " it is actually in the best interest of the salmon to release flows as kayakers see fit, which is turn is in the best interest of the orcas. you want to save the whales right? so release some water on the weekends." |
Posted By: Travisimo
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2012 at 9:48am
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I've always said we need to get a friend at that dam. Somebody get one of them into boating!!! Think of the possibilities! Who are these strange creatures living in the dam anyway? It has never made sense when they do or don't release water, at least in my opinion. ------------- H2O please |
Posted By: jon!
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2012 at 10:09am
| High flows to bust it loose would be great but don't youhave to worry where it might end down stream? |
Posted By: not-very-clever
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2012 at 10:14am
|
American Whitewater has done some amazing amazing things in washington state lately. maybe we can ride that momentum and get them motivated with a passionate letter. the HH damn is primarily used as a flood control mechanism. we should be able to leverage that for kayakers benefits |
Posted By: Dale
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2012 at 7:25pm
| Good news Jon! Said strainer has washed downstream a bit. It's not completely out of play, but most boaters should be able to miss it easily. |
Posted By: jon!
Date Posted: 16 Nov 2012 at 8:37pm
| Yea the children are safe but does this end the marathon thread...jP?. Thanks for the info Dale. I always thought those rapids were sketchy enough with those wicked boulders at the the bottom. A good roll is for people who are afraid to swim. |