Whitewater Forum: help on my back deck roll?

help on my back deck roll?

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Forum Name: Whitewater Forum
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URL: http://www.professorpaddle.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5725
Printed Date: 06 Oct 2025 at 7:50am

Topic: help on my back deck roll?

Posted By: matta
Subject: help on my back deck roll?
Date Posted: 29 Sep 2007 at 8:12am

I've been spending time at the lake teaching myself the back deck roll off the internet. I've been following the most common way shown on the web, which everyone says has you finishing over the front of the bow like this: http://www.boatertalk.com/skills.php?id=170 and this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frRYZI6VpIg (I couldn't resist showing that guy's black speedos and bare-midriff splash top).

I wasn't having any luck on my own. Then I saw this video and started getting up 90% of the time the next day I went out to the water: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DzX3xL3izo.

So I'm happy getting up fairly regularly on such a fast roll, and I'm not one to look a gift horse in the mouth, but it seems like I'm doing it "wrong" because I'm finishing differently. Here's what I'm nervous about:
1) the finish I'm doing seems more risky for the shoulder than the forward finish; and
2) I'd like to finish forward just because it's another way to get up and I'd like as many different ways to get up as possible.

Any thoughts? It feels like my main problem with learning the forward finish is that I can't get a convincing hip snap when trying to use the abdomen to push the paddle forward. The timing seems way off - I imagine I should be doing it while my torso is at about 90 degrees to the boat, but the hip snap required at that point is a mystery to me (at least when doing it with a paddle, leaning on the bow of someone else's boat seems relatively ok).
matt

Replies:

Posted By: STLboater
Date Posted: 29 Sep 2007 at 9:13am

There are 2 differnt types of back deck rolls in those videos, one that ends forward and one that ends back. The ending body position actually makes a big difference in the hip snap, which is were you have your problem.

In the first video where the guy ends up on the front deck, the backdeck roll uses only a sweeping roll. in the second video, the roll is a modified sweep/c-c roll. You can see that he starts by sweeping around the back deck, and then there is a defined moment where he snaps his hips and finishes like a c-c.

Your hip snap problem- In the sweep roll that you need to use to get to your front deck, your hip snap is more gradual, spread over the entirety of the sweeping movement of your paddle.

1) the finish I'm doing seems more risky for the shoulder than the forward finish
What do you mean more risky? W/o having seen your specific roll... there are a lot of little things that can put your shoulder at risk.

2) I'd like to finish forward just because it's another way to get up and I'd like as many different ways to get up as possible.

I honestly use the backdeck roll about 90% of the time, ending forward. There are 3 major advantages I see to ending in a forward position...
-Your body and paddle position have you ready to take another stroke
-If you do not make your roll, you can easily tuck forward and protect your face and shoulders
-I feel that once you get it down, the sweeping backdeck roll is the most powerful roll out there.

If you are interested, here are a couple clips of my backdeck roll in WW on my vid at 3:00 and 3:22. I might make some vids in the pool next session and post em up.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bB2qVcSRDSI

Backdecks DO leave your shoulders and face more vulnerable
shallow water + backdeck, not such a great idea, know that you wont punch the riverbed with your grill.

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Kayak Academy Whitewater Instructor

Posted By: matta
Date Posted: 29 Sep 2007 at 11:26am

The shoulder feels at risk when I'm finishing the roll with the paddle. I think the shoulder feels at risk b/c you're right, I'm finishin in a C-C roll. My primary roll on both sides is more of a sweep roll, less of a c-c roll. As a result, in this roll, I'm pulling straight in with the paddle more. I think I'll keep it up and just keep my elbow in more.

I hear what you're saying about the forward finish being powerful - it looks really solid. I'll keep trying to do the forward finish with the extra info about the gradual hip snap.

Any more info/ideas on the forward finish hip snap would be appreciated. It seems like the problem is either that or I'm getting no love from the paddle. But since I've seen videos of hand rolls finish in the same forward manner, I have to think it's my snap, not the energy I do or don't get from the paddle.

Posted By: Tobin
Date Posted: 29 Sep 2007 at 12:02pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DzX3xL3izo

Thats the best instructional vid I have seen on a back deck.

1. Notice how he keeps his paddle shaft low and close to his sternum. This keeps your head dryer and protects your shoulders.

2. Keep an eye on his wrists, he doesn't change position, he twists his wrists down. This keeps your paddle orientation for hte hip snap.

3. At the point that you are directly under your boat, try to roll the boat over the top of your body. This initiates the hip snap and sets your upper body up for the roll follow through.

4. I focus my eyes on the active blade, this rotates my waiste and keeps a strong set up for the completion of the roll.

I can back deck on both sides because I use a very light feathered paddle, if you are using a standard 30 degree feather, on your off side the forward blade will drag in the water and dive on you. The only solution I know for this, ( assuming you are using a right handed paddle) is to upon initiation, plant your right hand against your right shoulder, while pressing your left hand/ wrist out from your chest while sweeping.This will cause your BD roll to be "wetter" and require a stronger snap. Its a very awkward motion and takes allot of practice.

I work on rolling at different speeds, I can do it very fast, and find the faster I go, the dryer I stay. But prtacticing with slow precise motions helps more.

Peace

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Sure?

Posted By: ashleygoesdisco
Date Posted: 02 Oct 2007 at 11:39am

Are you able to hit a pool session sometime in the next week? I might be able to help you out... Thursday night at UPS or Friday night out in Redmond?

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Ashley Duffus
Well behaved women rarely make history.
www.naiyadays.blogspot.com

Posted By: matta
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2007 at 9:27am

Thanks!

I won't be able to for a little while . . . I'm a little spoiled b/c I live 1/2 mile from lake washington in Columbia City, so it's always hard to motivate to make the drive and spend a whole evening . . .

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