Whitewater Forum: Dagger Playboats

Dagger Playboats

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Category: General
Forum Name: Whitewater Forum
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URL: http://www.professorpaddle.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3190
Printed Date: 05 Oct 2025 at 3:49am

Topic: Dagger Playboats

Posted By: tradguy2
Subject: Dagger Playboats
Date Posted: 06 Jul 2005 at 11:52am

Ok, I have a question for all you playboaters out there. As luck would have it, I can get a good deal on a Dagger boat (which pretty much means I'm going to buy a Dagger boat). I'm looking to get into my first playboat and was wondering if anyone out there had any advice. So here is the question: should I go with the Dagger Kingpin or Crazy 88? (or even consider paying full price for something else?) Apparently the Crazy is bettter for air and in holes (which is pointless for me at the moment and the Kingpin is a bit better at river running and surfing). Is this true for you? What have you noticed? I'd love to hear what people out there think.

Replies:

Posted By: James
Date Posted: 06 Jul 2005 at 12:11pm

Honestly it depends on what your goals are.

The crazy 88 has less volume in the bow area which makes bow initiations a bit easier on flat water. However it is a bit more of an edgy boat, which makes river running a little more technical and bigger water too.

The Kingpin is a great all around boat, it has a bit more volume up front, and in my opinon it is a little harder to learn flat water moves with it. However for river running it is a faster and more forgiving vessel.

Now for a slice of my personal philosophy. I have paddled both the kingpin and crazy 88. I personally prefer the kingpin. Although the crazy 88 is better on flatwater, once you have those moves down, the kingpin is perfectly capable too. So if I was choosing a boat, knowing that I can do everthing in a kingpin that I can do in a crazy 88, I would go for the kingpin, just because it has better river running features. I dig the super hardcore playboats, but we do more river running around here then straight big wave surfing like the skook. For that reason I would go with the Kingpin.

Now to cook your bacon.
I recomend against buying a playboat for the savings. A lot of people I know have done just that, and found that they are unable to progress with the boat they have. Some people just don't fit into a boat the same way as others, so although a we might be the same height and weight other things can factor into, don't just go out and buy a boat cause a buddy has one and he can throw down in it. Some people I know had to try 4-5 boats before they found that perfect fit.

Like Dave bouncing from King Pin's and ZG's to the final choice a Necky Chronic. Dave paid full price for his chronic because although he could get steals on other boats he only could throw down that chronic with super style. Someday dave might switch up after he learns the moves and can take them to other boats, but until then he only likes the Chronic.

So ask yourself are you ok with saving $400-$500 and being stuck in a boat that you might never be able to throw down? Or would you prefer to spend the extra money to learn the moves faster? Its a question that only you can answer. And many peoples answers are different. And most of all many peoples answers to that question change after they are stuck in that first boat!!!

My final long winded advice. Go to the lake with some boaters and try before you buy!

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Posted By: tradguy2
Date Posted: 06 Jul 2005 at 12:48pm

Thanks James, I agree. If a boat doesen't work for you, getting it cheap will not change anything. A crappy boat that is a good deal is still a crappy boat and ultimately and a waste of money.

As for me, I'm only 5'7" so fitting in a boat usually isn't a problem, I actually like the way the Kingpin and Crazy felt while sitting in them at the store. Unfortunately, I have not paddled enough to know what features I like and dislike in a playboat. I appreciate you letting me paddle yours at the Powerhouse last week, it convinced me to get a playboat sooner rather than later. Unfortunately, I have paddled little enough that I'm I think the first one I buy may be a bit of a shot in the dark. I'm definitely going to try to get in as many boats a possible though before I decide one way or the other. Thanks for the advice.

Anyone else have any comments?

Posted By: cmud
Date Posted: 11 Jul 2005 at 12:38pm

I bought a crazy 88 6.3 this winter, I'm 6' 185lbs, I really like it. I paddle the wenatchee and the lower tumwater. It was a big improvement over my foreplay, I'm trying to learn flatwater tricks, I think it will all come with hours in the boat.

Posted By: tradguy2
Date Posted: 11 Jul 2005 at 2:56pm

Thanks man. I appreciate any and all info I can get.

Posted By: greenfieldja
Date Posted: 17 Jul 2005 at 4:44am

Tom, I think it is great that your skills and confidence have increasee/improved and that you are looking for another ride other than the tank you have been paddling, although the GT is a great boat from everything I have heard and seen. If you want to, you can add a couple of boats to your demo list (G-ride, Booster 55), as I am currently floating off the coast of an undisclosed country in an undisclosed part of the world, hunting down bad guys for the next 6 months, and my boats are very dry and sad. If you want to use them, just let me know by posting here or email me at greenfieldja@verizon.net and I will let my wife know its cool. See you in January.

-Jeff

Posted By: tradguy2
Date Posted: 18 Jul 2005 at 3:49pm

Thanks for the offer Jeff. I might take you up on that. As for your current situation, I can empathize. After six years myself I am glad the boats I deal with are small.

Look forward to paddling with you in 6 months,

Tom

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