Boat for the Grand Canyon
Printed From: ProfessorPaddle.com
Category: General
Forum Name: Whitewater Forum
Forum Discription: Open Discussion Forum. Whitewater related subjects only
URL: http://www.professorpaddle.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5827
Printed Date: 03 May 2025 at 12:59pm
Topic: Boat for the Grand Canyon
Posted By: Camrun
Subject: Boat for the Grand Canyon
Date Posted: 22 Oct 2007 at 9:18am
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Hi all, I have a permit for the Grand in August. What would folks suggest for a boat?? I have a Riot Sniper. Any feedback on kayaking the Grand would also be greatly appreciated. My 15 yr old will be boating it as well. Thanks |
Replies:
Posted By: jojo
Date Posted: 22 Oct 2007 at 9:30am
| My buddy used a Jackson Fun on our trip last year and he was very happy. Most of the Grand is flatwater so I would suggest a boat that is comfy in the flats and easy to paddle. The rapids are not as big as the stories about them. They are super fun and a creek or river runner would be ideal in dealing with a few of them but out of 250 miles there are maybe five big rapids. Most of the crazy eddylines I saw where in weird places during flat stretches and not in the rapids. |
Posted By: rainpaddle
Date Posted: 22 Oct 2007 at 10:02am
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Originally posted by Camrun
Hi all, I have a permit for the Grand in August. What would folks suggest for a boat?? I have a Riot Sniper. Any feedback on kayaking the Grand would also be greatly appreciated. My 15 yr old will be boating it as well. Thanks I used a Pyranha Burn which, for me, was a good choice. My buddy used a Jackson Fun which looked like a great choice. Trip leader used a Drago Rossi Pintail. Others used slalom boats. Comfort is key. I liked the maneuverability of the Burn, as muddy water was hard to read and lower flows reveal more rocks. Speaking of muddy water, bring along some adhesive medical tape. When the water goes brown the silt really affects your handling of the paddle shaft. I was greatful for it as some slippage occurred at inappropriate times. The Rivermaps Guidebook to the Colorado of the Grand Canyon by Tom Martin was a great book to have along for the rapid, hike and camp descriptions. It is truly a great river adventure.
Cheers,
Rob G
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Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 22 Oct 2007 at 11:59am
| You will be fine in a well outfitted play boat. |
Posted By: Moon
Date Posted: 22 Oct 2007 at 2:26pm
I leave this week for my trip and I am taking 2 boats.....a Jackson Fun and a Cataraft to put it on during the flat water. ![]("smileys/smiley20.gif") I know a lot of folks have taken squirt boats and have some great stories of mystery moving entire rapids... fun but not my style I have done tons of boating in silty rivers and while the medical tape is a great idea, I prefer some surf board wax for my control hand only... anything on you non-control leads to big blisters. |
Posted By: Camrun
Date Posted: 22 Oct 2007 at 3:01pm
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Great feedback, thanks. Interesting about the Fun. I have one and I have been hearing this boat mentioned several times now in different places. Comfort vs play is a big concern. Our party will probably require a few of us to be in the kayaks quite a bit of the time just due to raft space. I did the Green last year in the Fun and I was miserable a lot of the time. The river was low, slow and HOT. So again any comments on the Sniper since I already own it or should I look for a bit bigger play boat? |
Posted By: rainpaddle
Date Posted: 22 Oct 2007 at 3:04pm
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Originally posted by Moon
I leave this week for my trip and I am taking 2 boats.....a Jackson Fun and a Cataraft to put it on during the flat water. I know a lot of folks have taken squirt boats and have some great stories of mystery moving entire rapids... fun but not my style I have done tons of boating in silty rivers and while the medical tape is a great idea, I prefer some surf board wax for my control hand only... anything on you non-control leads to big blisters. I worried about that too, but it didn't happen. When the temps got hot the wax melted and never contributed towards grip. Pretty much every one bailed on the wax after a few days and just used med tape. Your pending trip doesn't seem like it'll be as warm as it was for us. Have a blast, I wanna go back! The Fun is a great boat for the river.
Cheers,
Rob G
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Posted By: Moon
Date Posted: 22 Oct 2007 at 3:25pm
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Originally posted by Camrun Comfort vs play is a big concern. Our party will probably require a few of us to be in the kayaks quite a bit of the time just due to raft space. I did the Green last year in the Fun and I was miserable a lot of the time. The river was low, slow and HOT. So again any comments on the Sniper since I already own it or should I look for a bit bigger play boat? Tell your group to man up and rent some rubber! Hell you need more rubber on the trip, I loan you my raft..... it comes pre-packaged with a rower! ![]("smileys/smiley16.gif") When you think about all the crap (literally 336 userdays worth) you take on a trip, the weight and space of a kayak is nothing if you agree to row anytime your kayak is strapped on.While the grand is the trip of a life time and you want to have fun/be comfortable.... don't buy a kayak that you won't enjoy when the trip is over. never paddled a sniper so I can't comment |
Posted By: kebm1979
Date Posted: 22 Oct 2007 at 4:56pm
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So jealous. I did the GC in June of 2004, and took my inazone as it was good for surfing and comfortable. The fun could be a great choice too if are comfortable in it. However, if I am lucky enough to go again. I would do the whole thing in my own raft, renting one if necessary. Like others have said the whitewater isn't really that exciting, but the canyon itself is amazing. Go on as many sides hikes as possible. I orginally went as a safety kayaker and backup rower, but I ended up rowing more than half the trip for several different reasons. You don't have to be a very skilled rower to do the GC, just being coordinated, and more importantly smart about how to navigate a raft and reading water.
As one said previously if you are short on rubber, all the people not providing a raft should contribute to rent another one from PRO or somebody else. It is worth it for sure. Have fun! km |
Posted By: Camrun
Date Posted: 22 Oct 2007 at 10:30pm
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It's not the rubber but the rowers. This is my second time down. The first time I rowed the whole thing and it was the first river I ever rowed. (You all are absolutely right, if you can read water and are somewhat aware of where you are, this is not a hard river. Even though I had never rowed I had no probs) Three of us had to combine permits to get next year's permit. I have a family of five and I'm the only one who could row of my family. We are asking a friend to come and help with the rowing so I can paddle. With having to combine permits and everyone wanting to invite family we may well end up being short on experienced rowers. It is so hard to get a permit now that people end up having to combine permits which really cut down on having the ideal group make up. As it turns out to have an experienced oars person on our raft, at least 3 of my family will also need to be on that boat. The other permit holders are forced to decide on family or oars people as well. It gets to be a mess. ![]("smileys/smiley6.gif") Since I can't decide for the other permit holders whether they will trade a friend or family member for a oars person, I decided that my family's raft should be pretty self sufficient and unfortunately full. In the ideal world I would have my own permit for 16 people and could invite a balanced group of family, friends and experienced rowers. (Not that they are mutually exclusive but you get my point ![]("smileys/smiley19.gif") .) |
Posted By: Kyle K
Date Posted: 23 Oct 2007 at 12:23am
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I spent years as a guide/outfitter down there so may have a few insights you'll consider worthwhile. It's a wonderful place as you know if you've done it once already.
Kayak: A comfortable, fast playboat/river-runner would be my choice. Something a little (but not too) old school. Perhaps a Necky Mission or a Pyranha I:3. Many of the surf waves aren't terribly steep or breaking, although they can be huge, and most spud boats have a hard time catching them. This style of boat is also much better in the flat sections, of which there are many. Of course a creeker or large river-runner would be even more comfy but not much fun when you wanted to catch the odd wave or play in the eddyline at camp.
Features: This all depends on the water level. It drives me a little nuts hearing people talk about what the rapids are like who have only run it once. Please believe me when I say that Horn Creek is two entirely different animals at high and low levels. High water is big fun but low water is very scary in a raft. I've run the river when the dam was shut off, imagine 800 cfs of leakage through the bedrock, to when it peaked at around 90k in 1983, and pretty much every level in between. You will find all kinds of different features down there depending on the levels. If you're going in August you will likely have higher water as that is when all the air conditioners are working overtime in Phoenix. Higher water means less defined features. Who knows what the levels will be like next year however, as Powell Reservoir is very low and the southwest is still in a drought. Either way I still recommend a comfy, fast and playful boat.
Riot Sniper: This boat would not be one of my choices. Although it is very comfortable and has plenty of float to help with that lunch and six pack you'll be carrying along, I don't imagine it is a very good big water boat, nor will it play much. The short displacement hull doesn't surf particularly well from what I understand, and I am guessing you'll get knocked all over the place when trying to nail a line in the big stuff. I have never actually paddled a Sniper however so I may be speaking out of turn.
Best Grand Canyon Tip: Don't waste time lollygagging around camp in the mornings! Get up early, get downriver and find the next hiking spot. There are so many amazing places to see down there and you'll never see them all in a lifetime of trips. After literally years in the big ditch there are still many, many places I have yet to see.
Permits: Actually, with the new system it's not all that hard to get a permit, especially if you can do it on the shoulder seasons before and after the summer rush. It seems that everyone I know who has applied has gotten theirs within a year (since the application changes of two years ago that is).
Other handy tips:
Bring lots of sunscreen and lotion as your skin will get burned and very dry.
Bring bag balm to help heal the painful cracks you will get in your hands.
Bring superglue to fix those same cracks.
Bring a helmet with a long visor. A Sweet Strutter would be perfect.
Bring an extra pair each of sunglasses and flip flops.
Cotton clothing is better than synthetics when it's hot.
Somebody bring a musical instrument. A guitar is perfect if anyone can play.
Have a great time! It is truly a wonderous place and we're priveledged that we get to see it from a boat.
Kyle ------------- "I used to be somebody, now I'm somebody else." Bad Blake |
Posted By: kebm1979
Date Posted: 23 Oct 2007 at 11:06am
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Get tips Kyle, I imagine horn the ditch is a lot different at 800cfs. The thing that practically drove me crazy with my group was they were so slow setting
up and breaking camp. If you are going down with people who are new to
multiday trips, I would recommend planning days of a simple menu and
camp to correspond to the days you want to do longer hikes so you have
the time to do them. Also I was so happy I brought my poogies. They really were a life saver in protecting my hands from the sun, when I was kayaking. Suerte, km |