Looking to get into the sport
Printed From: ProfessorPaddle.com
Category: General
Forum Name: Whitewater Forum
Forum Discription: Open Discussion Forum. Whitewater related subjects only
URL: http://www.professorpaddle.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5890
Printed Date: 05 Oct 2025 at 6:04am
Topic: Looking to get into the sport
Posted By: xtrmln
Subject: Looking to get into the sport
Date Posted: 06 Nov 2007 at 10:31pm
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Hello all, I just made the decision to try this whitewater stuff in a kayak. About 6 years ago I took a 5 day class and did 2 trips after that. Unfortunately before I could get back out there again I had a pretty gnarly car accident that had me out of action for quite a bit. I'm looking for a bit of advice on gear. I still have my old boat and am wondering if it is just too outdated now. It is a Perception ARC. I was thinking that I have it and I should probably just use it but being a motorcycle racer and a big fan of technology would I be shooting my self in the foot with the old girl? Also I have checked out some reviews but what are some opinions on top of the line dry suits? ------------- F.M.S. wmrra #866 |
Replies:
Posted By: water wacko
Date Posted: 07 Nov 2007 at 5:18am
![]("smileys/smiley27.gif") ------------- "Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." ~Howard Thurman |
Posted By: Tobin
Date Posted: 07 Nov 2007 at 7:07am
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Hey, welcome to the sport, What size are you? heigth, weight? I agree wit hBrett, Kokatat is the bomb for drysuits, if a grand is outta your price range, check out the Palms.
I think they are only second to Kokatat in quality, and about $450 less. ------------- Sure? |
Posted By: xtrmln
Date Posted: 07 Nov 2007 at 8:27am
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Thanks for the info. I was looking at the Kokatat gore tex suit. Guess thats the one I'll go with. Since its the offseason I'm thinking I'll hit the pools and maybe try to rent a few different boats to see what I like. One more thing when spring rolls around what are considered top of the line in the way of schools? providing they don't interfere with my race schedual I may look to try a couple to get me going. I'm an instructor for a different sport that I love and thus I am a firm believer in good instruction and a firm grip of the fundamentals. Thanks for the input guys! ------------- F.M.S. wmrra #866 |
Posted By: Tobin
Date Posted: 07 Nov 2007 at 8:47am
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Talk to Brett (waterwacko) He is a kick ass instructor,
------------- Sure? |
Posted By: xtrmln
Date Posted: 07 Nov 2007 at 8:51am
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ok will do. pm replied to tobin. Thanks. ------------- F.M.S. wmrra #866 |
Posted By: JoesKayak
Date Posted: 07 Nov 2007 at 10:37am
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That ARC may be considered a dinosaur by today's standards, but is a decent boat... Go ahead and start using it. Then as you gain time on rivers and check out other folks boats... (many kayakers don't mind swappin out and letting your try theirs out for a bit) ... you can get an idea of what direction you'd like to go and what kind of new boats you'd like to have. Note I said "boats"... if you get the whitewater bug, you'll want more than one boat. Having one boat is like having one golf club. ![]("smileys/smiley36.gif") |
Posted By: justin
Date Posted: 07 Nov 2007 at 10:59am
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Palms look pretty damn nice to me as far as dysuits go. |
Posted By: Ryan
Date Posted: 07 Nov 2007 at 11:56am
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Getting some formal training I'm sure is a good idea but not necessary. I took a beginner class but have benefited from the community of boaters in the area to improve my boating. No real need to spend money on "lessons" that you could get for free from some new found buddies. I tried to take a creeking class a couple times but they never happened. The Prof. Paddle community taught me everything I needed to know and I now have a great crew of creekers to call on to go paddle with or ask help. Same goes for playboating. We've had the dry suit conversation many times. Here is a thread I started a while back http://professorpaddle.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5604&KW= As far as boats... Get your roll dialed in with your old boat and take a few runs down the 'ole Sky to work out the cobwebs and then try some new boats. As Joe said, most people here are willing to let someone borrow a boat to try. Also, SRK's pool sessions at Meadowbrook pool on Monday nights is a great place to try new boats. Call them and tell them what boat you want to demo and they will bring it for free. SYOTR! |
Posted By: Ryan
Date Posted: 07 Nov 2007 at 12:00pm
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Oh, and get a pee zipper in your dry suit. No brainer. Worth the extra cash the first time you have to go pee... so I hear. I still don't have a dry suit. ![]("smileys/smiley11.gif") |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 07 Nov 2007 at 2:00pm
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Check out the Riot Inferno. It is a great river runner as well as a sweet boat for surfing smaller waves. http://riotkayaks.com/v3/ww_inferno.asp
Kokotat makes bomber stuff but you should also look into Immersion research. Their new seemless technology is really inovative and prevents the possibility of water leaking through a loose seem. As Ryan pointed out, relief zipper is totally a good call in a dry suit. ------------- |
Posted By: James
Date Posted: 07 Nov 2007 at 4:58pm
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Riot Inferno???? what? Like always KTW's pushin the house gear. If ya gotta do it at least push the air/flair thats a way better boat than the inferblow. I love my air 55. Well its toast now but my little waSabi was qualiTy!! ![]("smileys/smiley17.gif") ------------- |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 07 Nov 2007 at 5:39pm
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Yeah, but the Flair is a very, very specificly big-wave oriented boat.
The inferno is a river runner that still has great play potential. In terms of Riot, f you want to go for an all out play boat as a beginner, go for the Astro. It is a little more all-around play boat than the flair, with good performance on both waves and holes. James- I know you love Riot ;). Anyway, Brett is pushin his product, why not push mine? Also, I am coming from the stand point of having paddled both companies' boats extensively. ------------- |
Posted By: xtrmln
Date Posted: 07 Nov 2007 at 5:49pm
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Well for me I'm thinking I'll probably be looking for an all arounder. Something predictable and maybe a little forgiving for a novice boater. Thanks to all for the good imput. I want to start with something a little confidence inspiring. I wont have any issues with getting multiple boats to suit multiple needs as I (hopefully) advance. ------------- F.M.S. wmrra #866 |
Posted By: water wacko
Date Posted: 07 Nov 2007 at 5:56pm
![]("smileys/smiley18.gif") ------------- "Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." ~Howard Thurman |
Posted By: cloudpeak
Date Posted: 07 Nov 2007 at 7:28pm
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Originally posted by water wacko
I will never "push" Jackson, just to be clear. My friend Kyle paddles a big Crazy 88 and it is the best boat for his body type and physical condition. I recommended he try it out. I'm not into 'pushing' products. Products speak for themselves. I just explain how they work and fit peoples' bodies. Nothin' against you or Riot, David. I just like to be clear. I happen to like Jackson boats and think the Fun series works well for beginners. Just a gentle reminder, though, those who are sponsored should make that sponsorship clear in their posts IMO. |
Posted By: James
Date Posted: 07 Nov 2007 at 8:01pm
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That is a good point cloudpeak. I think they should put it in the signature like KTW. And I am going to go ahead and call BS, on that one Brett, you sell Jackson like a mofo. I can't remember the last time I heard you recommending a different boat. And I can't count the number of times I have heard you defending or promoting them, even the mega rocker. Now your saying you will never "push" Jackson? Your the new sponsor? I am lost on this one... I can honestly say I am still not neutral. I am a fan of Riot, I have always liked the designs but I don't paddle one right now. Mainly because they don't sell them here and they don't really want to support a company that does not see value in our region. I am just about ready to start selling boats myself so we can get Riot back here. I miss those boats. But right now I would say your best bet is a Necky. Their Team rocks! J J ------------- |
Posted By: spindrift
Date Posted: 07 Nov 2007 at 8:37pm
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Well, you've got two PP members on Team Riot (or is it two Team Riot members on PP?) - kayaktheworld and his brother lazaruslong1108... Maybe you oughta see what their take is on Riot in the PNW. Of course one of them is theoretically about done eating breakfast at 12,000 feet on the Mekong river right now - so that part of the conversation might need to wait a while...
Or you could just start nudging the local shops. . . . . In the interest of that full disclosure thing, you could say I'm proud to be affiliated with both of said paddlers. ![]("smileys/smiley4.gif")
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Posted By: water wacko
Date Posted: 07 Nov 2007 at 9:06pm
![]("smileys/smiley23.gif") ------------- "Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." ~Howard Thurman |
Posted By: PowWrangler
Date Posted: 07 Nov 2007 at 9:25pm
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Hey Dave/KTW, am I crazy or weren't you representing Jackson recently? I forget. James, what happened to your shoulder? ------------- |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 07 Nov 2007 at 9:43pm
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Wrangler:
I represented Jackson up until about a month ago. I switched to Riot for many reasons but one was the number of problems that I (and my brother) had with Jackson boats and the company's failure to address them. IE: Plastic cracking and blemming, outfitting breaking, etc. Also, I will say a few things here: 1) I will always be upfront about my affiliation with a product. 2) Despite this affiliation, I will never, ever, try to sell a product that I do not feel is the highest quality money can buy. This is easy for me to achieve because I would never represent a product that I did not feel this way about. That is why my brother and I are now paddling Riot (not to mention that this company is just a cool, goofy, honest group of people who are all a joy to work with). ------------- |
Posted By: spindrift
Date Posted: 07 Nov 2007 at 9:46pm
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WW, let's be clear - you are sponsored to sell the product. Claiming otherwise is BS. Simply put, you are provided with free or discounted gear in order to motivate you to pitch the product and to compensate you for doing so. This is true of all sponsored athletes. Period. Hence the importance of full disclosure.
Now you may believe in the product you choose to affiliate yourself with. And that's the best of all possible worlds. It is great when people believe in the products they are affiliated with. But don't "BS" folks about the inescapable foundations of that relationship. If you don't want to deal with that, don't take the compensation from them. I'll avoid putting words in anyone else's mouth & will speak only for myself. I've plunked my $$ down on no small number of Jackson boats the past few years (several family members have been paddling them). I have to say that IMO Jackson Kayaks should be ashamed of themselves with respect to their quality and their non-responsiveness wrt same. Out of the boats family members have owned (both retail and pro deals), one was destroyed in under 4 weeks of daily but reasonable use, one is in questionable condition after only a short period of moderate use, and the outfitting in a couple of them failed very prematurely (one after only two weeks use on the Grand Canyon). EJ has personally seen two of the failed boats and has done bubkas about them. One he claimed was due to abuse (yeah, lots of sharp rocks to gouge your boat on during 4 spring trips on the Wenatchee play run...) and one he said would be taken care of (it literally was being held together by duct tape). Nothing happened. Why don't you ask him about whether or not there are plastic issues with the SuperStars and ask him how they've dealt with those... I think I can answer that though - he went paddling while leaving his customers hanging. We went to great effort to get Riot boats shipped here before lazaruslong1108 headed for the Himalayas - because we felt taking a single current production Jackson boat would be unsafe. Simple as that. And the honest truth. In general, my family liked the designs, fit, comfort, and adjustability of the Jacksons - but the overall poor quality means we'll never send another penny their way. This is a pretty major turn around from a paddling family that was initially very excited by the boats and was even willing to forgive one or two issues. All that aside - if you are proud to be associated with Jackson, why not just make that crystal clear. Then pitch/defend them with everyone fully informed. |
Posted By: James
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2007 at 8:43am
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I guess I should be a good paddler and go paddle, or work on my shoulder, but that is not what I am going to do. I am going to get right back on and Laugh out Loud baby. Cuz if your last post Brett was not yet another big fat shameless promotion of jackson I don't know what is. Simply put your posts of late resemble the strategy of a sideways politician grasping for things to validate his distortion of the truth. Dude don't fight it... just let that black spiderman suit cover you up... It will give you powers that you have never felt before. I guess the thing that I find the funniest about this whole thing is that new boaters really have the least amount of need for a specific boat or special design. Its the advanced boaters that have that need. I hate to say this but sales and advertising are a process of business and not a something that can be changed. I will explain... When beginners buy a boat, thats a sale for the boating company. Without sales they go out of business. Advertising is when the boating company uses different ways of gaining attention to their product and company. One method of advertising is Sponsorship. See so your a sponsor because your helping increase sales. If you decreased sales you would not be a sponsor you would be a liability, and if you left to go to riot you would be a competitor. i am guessing both would result in a loss of sponsorship. ------------- |
Posted By: James
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2007 at 8:58am
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That last little bit was a little spiteful... Brett you know I love ya.
Let me put it in a different scene. If I were to start talking about PP
and how it was the best site on the internet, then I said I am un-bias
and I just want to help new boaters get situated in a good community
for posting and that I would recommend any board or community, its just
that PP is the best. Lol ... well that would be a lie. I want to rule the world, I want to force the White House to its knees and into re-form, I want to become a supreme dicktatortot that could in one motion force everyone on the planet to play glowing frisbee... just for the change it will have in their life!!! Of course that would be the bad example because everyone knows the benefits of Glowing Frisbee... By the way I got in a session this last weekend and it was superb... Franz you would have been in heaven! ------------- |
Posted By: CRG Productions
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2007 at 9:38am
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The Glowing Frisbee was pretty awesome! My first encouter with it and..well...life changing is a great term for it! ------------- www.gorgehits.com |
Posted By: hugo
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2007 at 9:52am
| One good thing about Jacksons.....Emily is hot. |
Posted By: Ryan
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2007 at 10:10am
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You guys are ridiculous. Hey xrtmln.... don't listen to these guys. Their panties are in bunch b/c there isn't much whitewater around at the moment. Isn't Emily Jackson like 16 hugo? I dig my Dagger Crazy 88 as a playboat and it's hard to beat the Pyrahna Burn as a creeker. There are tons of good boats out there. Tobin has a Project 52 for sale. It would be a great playboat to start with depending on your size. I would recommend getting a playboat b/c once you learn the basic again you will want to start (I assume) learning to cartwheel and stuff. And running rivers are just more fun in a playboat. They are aggressive compared to a creeker or river runner but if are wanting to get into the sport you'll want that. |
Posted By: justin
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2007 at 10:47am
| I agree with Ryan, You should get a playboat because transitioning from that to a creeker later is easier than the other way around. |
Posted By: hugo
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2007 at 11:28am
| Emily is 17, and being a pro boater chic that hangs with a bunch of pro boater dudes, she is probably 17 going on 25... |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2007 at 12:19pm
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Yeah but that still doesn't make it not creepy. Anyway, good luck competing with Nick Troutman. ------------- |
Posted By: James
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2007 at 12:31pm
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Hugo how old are you? You sound like an old dirty kayaker I know with a nasty hairy dog.... you don't shave his balls and let him clean your plates do you? Whats with the Emily bashing anyways. Think of how rough she has it .... Really. A young girl growing up in all the different boating communities. Every day hanging out with a bunch of poor dirty kayakers that are sizing you up like the soft glazed portion of a christmas ham. Not to mention they roll in that huge Jackson RV and when its raining you know every boater at the campsite is trying to cop a sneak of the color tv in the popout living room where its dry. Give her a break hugo. Use the code that I used when I was a hitman ... no women no children. ------------- |
Posted By: water wacko
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2007 at 5:31pm
![]("smileys/smiley28.gif") ------------- "Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." ~Howard Thurman |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2007 at 6:20pm
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James isn't stirring the pot, he is right.
If you aren't out there with the goal of selling Jackson kayaks, you downright aren't doing your job. That is what being sponsored is, it is a job. That is why I left their company, was because I felt I could no longer, with good faith, tell people to buy their products and still take their boats. ------------- |
Posted By: Tobin
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2007 at 8:03pm
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Does someone have a "Soap Box" KTW can use,
apparently he needs to preach a little more! ------------- Sure? |
Posted By: spindrift
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2007 at 8:38pm
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Originally posted by newtobin
Does someone have a "Soap Box" KTW can use, apparently he needs to preach a little more! Do you think he is wrong? If so, how? I'm not talking about whether he or ww or anyone loves or hates or is neutral about a given company. Just whether or not you think he's off base about the rules of engagement when someone is sponsored. Along those lines, what do you think would happen if someone like ww (just for discussion purposes) publicly suggested the Habitat as the best creeker with a statement like "yeah, my sponsor makes a great playboat, but I suggest people getting into creeking get a Habitat...". How long do you think that sponsorship would last if word got back to the home office? Do you think that kind of scenario might influence what a normal person might or might not say? I suspect most sponsored folks find a niche where they are plugging for a company they believe in - so I do not think there's anything fundamentally dishonest in people pitching their sponsors' products. I do think, however, everyone benefits when the relationship is front and center out in the open. And ducking and dodging around the issue is fundamentally dishonest IMO. |
Posted By: Willy
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2007 at 8:55pm
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Jeez guys. I agree, the lack of water is making you all a little wack.
Full disclosure, I represent a local kayak shop. Where Brett works. Which sells Jackson. And I'm getting cabin fever like y'all, typing with one hand, can't paddle til I rehab this shoulder. THANKS by the way to everyone who shared their suggestions about PT. I have a few weeks til I start, so lots of time to research. But I digress...
Brett is not BSing. Our approach, and really it's like most shops in our business, is strictly about sharing information and giving people a chance to try the products that interest them. Hopefully that's the experience you've had if you've visited us. Brett shares in this approach, and if he didn't, we wouldn't be interested in having him around.
It would be irresponsible for SRK or for Brett, even with his association with the Jackson brand, to expect every boater to fit into one company's boats. We might make a quick sale but if the paddler isn't happy with us a year later, we're losing ground. We believe the best way to keep a customer is to describe the attributes of each product as honestly as we can, give them as many tools as possible to make their own informed choice, and don't ever talk crap about other shops or other brands. I'm pretty familiar with the way our competitors in WA and OR talk to their guests, and for the most part we all take the same approach. You can't survive in such a small market with a pushy attitude.
So give Brett a break. And yes of course James is stirring the pot. I can even hear him cackling. And yes I know this post just put a big bullseye on my back... fire away. Meanwhile if you're youre a real athlete and you're still looking for fun water to run on Dec 2nd, come out to the Dash... www.blogger.com//http://SeattleRaftandKayak.com/dpd ------------- Ruby Creek Boathouse LLC Eddyline, Stohlquist, Bending Branches, Esquif, Skwoosh Cushions, Costa Del Mar shades, Danuu, CRG Rec Repair, Pakboats, YakGrips http://rubycreekboathouse.blogspot.com/ |
Posted By: jalmquist
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2007 at 8:56pm
| Best thread ever! Keep it going... |
Posted By: Willy
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2007 at 8:59pm
Thanks John. Who sponsors you, just full disclosure? ![]("http://www.professorpaddle.com/forum/smileys/smiley36.gif") ------------- Ruby Creek Boathouse LLC Eddyline, Stohlquist, Bending Branches, Esquif, Skwoosh Cushions, Costa Del Mar shades, Danuu, CRG Rec Repair, Pakboats, YakGrips http://rubycreekboathouse.blogspot.com/ |
Posted By: cloudpeak
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2007 at 9:14pm
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Wow, WW, why did you remove all your posts and replace them with emoticons? Are you trying to hide what you said?
Also, since you're sponsored, I would think you would be proud to disclose your affliations with JK and SRK to the people on PP. I don't get it. ![]("smileys/smiley5.gif")
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Posted By: Tobin
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2007 at 9:27pm
Posted By: water wacko
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2007 at 9:40pm
I'm simply tired of smelling this thread. PC bravery ruins another thread and disgusts another paddler. ![]("smileys/smiley34.gif") ------------- "Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." ~Howard Thurman |
Posted By: Willy
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2007 at 9:44pm
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Good point Tobin. Originally this was about welcoming a new guy. So, welcome, new guy. And you won't find a ride of any kind in any local kayak shop that looks like what you've been riding...
------------- Ruby Creek Boathouse LLC Eddyline, Stohlquist, Bending Branches, Esquif, Skwoosh Cushions, Costa Del Mar shades, Danuu, CRG Rec Repair, Pakboats, YakGrips http://rubycreekboathouse.blogspot.com/ |
Posted By: hugo
Date Posted: 08 Nov 2007 at 10:51pm
| Alrighty, good. With all that out of the way, we can get back to the real issue....Emily is still hot. |
Posted By: James
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2007 at 7:55am
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CloudPeak is so dead on I am sitting here about to pop a hemmaroid laughing so hard. Hugo are you mistaking Emily Jackson with the Emily at Skook you perv? Bill just made the biggest pushes on the thread for his product, and well he could be honest and come back and say yes that was a pitch as well as an explanation... or he could really try to slab it on thick and say that his whole post was 100% only about backing up Brett. Nonsense and folly... I am not saying what Bill did was bad either.... you guys are all whack.... I like it ... its good. What would be bad is if bill came back and said.... I work for 4 other companies and I am in no way partial to SRK. I would never push SRK they just happen to be the VERY BEST KAYAK SHOP IN SEATTLE. Sounds like SRK should change the name to SRKson As far as stopping this thread now because it has hyjacked its original purpose... I say screw it... We have gone to far to turn back now... Plus I bet were making enought people chuckle that its ok to keep going... Next please ------------- |
Posted By: xtrmln
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2007 at 8:25am
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Willy. You got it right. I looked at all the local shops and not a friggin one had any Yamaha boats. Whats up with that? If only Yammie put out kayaking boats. I wouldn't have any problems knowing wich one would be best. haha. As far as this thread goes... I don't get what all the fuss is about. In my other sport if your good enough, you get sponsorship. If you get sponsorship you push it like a crack peddlar to keep it. I say push push push whomever is backing you. From all the responses to my origanal post here and from pm's I don't see anyone trying to pull a fast one on a newbie. I have been floored at how willing this community is to help out! ------------- F.M.S. wmrra #866 |
Posted By: James
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2007 at 8:34am
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hahahha... xtrmln this is how we get when there is not alot of water around.... or when we have been off the water for a while.... Watch when the rain hits you will stop seeing the bitching and you will just see trips and smiles. But in the meantime....lets get back to hugo's .... no I mean jAlmquist's suggestion! ------------- |
Posted By: RemAcct3
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2007 at 8:51am
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This thread is hilarious really.... If you read through it you can see everyones affiliations because they all clearly talk about who they work for... its great really! I think at least... It means you are getting to work in the community you love and you should want to share that. I think this is all really more about the fact that if you want to share that you should not try to do the political both sides thing and deny it when your asked. If your proud your proud. I have heard James talk about PP and I have heard people behind his back ridicule him for talking about PP....OooPs sorry dude. Heck a few years ago on a different forum someone here gave him a pretty good piece of shit for doing a similar thing. But in the end I think people appreciate it. Its enthusiasim for the interest we all share. People just want to be assured that it is genuine. SRK has done well because of that and it is great for our community. Notice I don't get to drop the companies name I work for here.... well you know what ... screw that stop by the safeway in Fife and I will bag that shit for ya anytime on the weekdays between 7am - 4pm! But you know what I can't give you any discounts or really benefits. But really the point is you all should be really happy you get to participate in a community that you have so much passion for. When you do what you love you always do it best, and when you do it the best people will always love what you do....If we find out Emily Jackson was assaulted at Skook we will all know to look for hugo! =Dout ------------- |
Posted By: xtrmln
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2007 at 8:59am
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Oh beleive me James I know what it's like not being able to get your fix. I go stir crazy in the offseason of racing. Thats probably got the most to do with me getting involved in whitewater kayaking. The offseason around these parts is way too long for motorcycle racing. Oh by the way this hoping for rain thing... Thats gonna take some time for me to get used to. I usually stay up the night before a race doing my "no rain rituals" till about 2 in the morning. ------------- F.M.S. wmrra #866 |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2007 at 9:25am
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Now we know who to blame for dry spells. ;)
------------- |
Posted By: Willy
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2007 at 10:04am
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I can't even believe I'm biting on this, James. Maybe I got nothing better to do this morning. Anybody who thinks "James is not stirring the pot" is smoking something they only grow in, maybe, Colorado.
Bill could be honest? hmmm... Whatcha lookin' for here James?... I disclosed my allegiance prior to saying anything. Also it's in my signature, so you got it at the top and the bottom. If you like, I could preface every paragraph with "hey, buy my stuff!"... but I believe that's implied by the disclosures I made already.
My point was about our business -- educating a customer is way better in the long run than pushing the wrong boat on them to make a quick sale. Beyond that, it should be obvious it's in my best interest that people walk in my shop and hand me money. That's capitalism. Help me out here, Leif.
Here's a plug, again... any real athletes out there hit www.blogger.com//http://SeattleRaftandKayak.com/dpd and sign up for a REAL competition. Brought to you by your friends at SRK. Waterwacko will be on the safety crew. He works for SRK, did I mention that?
There's so much more I could say... but I gotta head to Fife and buy some groceries. Daryl, what shift do you work? :) ------------- Ruby Creek Boathouse LLC Eddyline, Stohlquist, Bending Branches, Esquif, Skwoosh Cushions, Costa Del Mar shades, Danuu, CRG Rec Repair, Pakboats, YakGrips http://rubycreekboathouse.blogspot.com/ |
Posted By: Willy
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2007 at 10:12am
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Wait, I got it Daryl, there you are, 7-4 on weekdays. I'm there, dude.
Almquist you still haven't told us who you work for... ------------- Ruby Creek Boathouse LLC Eddyline, Stohlquist, Bending Branches, Esquif, Skwoosh Cushions, Costa Del Mar shades, Danuu, CRG Rec Repair, Pakboats, YakGrips http://rubycreekboathouse.blogspot.com/ |
Posted By: Jimmy
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2007 at 10:26am
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Originally posted by xtrmln
Oh by the way this hoping for rain thing... Thats gonna take some time for me to get used to. I usually stay up the night before a race doing my "no rain rituals" till about 2 in the morning. Don't tell people that at the river or you may get the snot beat out of you. The friendliness of river folks only goes so far.
Jimmy
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Posted By: James
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2007 at 11:26am
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Please don't let this thread die... it is my favorite... Please stop lurking and post some flame, someone call brad and tell him we need a crispy dry Pallet style post! But in the meantime I figured I should drop a link to our sponsor's and get a little traffic going on to help myself out.!!!! ------------- |
Posted By: Willy
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2007 at 11:33am
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Yikes. That's one hell of a pantsuit. From the fashion I'm guessing this pic was taken in Canada.
------------- Ruby Creek Boathouse LLC Eddyline, Stohlquist, Bending Branches, Esquif, Skwoosh Cushions, Costa Del Mar shades, Danuu, CRG Rec Repair, Pakboats, YakGrips http://rubycreekboathouse.blogspot.com/ |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2007 at 11:33am
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One thing I want to say before this post is that I'm not trying to antagonize anyone here in this thread. I like all of you, paddle with you guys, and genuinely enjoy this community. So yeah, this is a little bit of an intense discussion but I want to let you all know that I am enjoying it and enjoying seeing everyone's different opinions on selling stuff.
Heh, actually, Bill, I do not smoke, drink, or partake in any other use of substances. So actually, there is nothing, even that stuff grown in Colorado that I am smoking. Maybe part of James' goal here is to stir up some controversy but that does not change the fact that he is right. Yeah, maybe you won't be heart broken and angry if a customer doesn't choose SRK but that doesn't mean your goal isn't to have them shop there. If it wasn't, the shop probably wouldn't be doing so great. As for Brett- He works for SRK and SRK sells a variety of boats. On the otherhand, he also specifically works for one of those brands. Therefore, his goals should go in this order 1) The customer buys that specific brand, 2) the customer shops at SRK, and 3) the customer is happy in whatever choice they make, maintaining a good relationship with the shop. All I'm trying to say is that if you are representing a brand (or any kind of business) it is in your interest to get people to buy that product. Of course you want them to be happy, but you want them to be happy in your product. That is capitalism. With this in mind, I will say that yes, I will always support people in buying a Riot boat so long as I still believe in their product. You know why? Is because I think that is the brand that most people will be happiest in. I know I am. With the wide variety of type and size of boats they produce (Riot has an extremely diverse line), I think pretty much anyone can find a model to suit their needs. Combine this with their sturdy outfitting, bomber plastic, and on the ball staff, I don't think you could really go wrong. So there it is, I plugged the product in this post. ------------- |
Posted By: Willy
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2007 at 11:53am
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Originally posted by kayaktheworld
Heh, actually, Bill, I do not smoke, drink, or partake in any other use of substances. So actually, there is nothing, even that stuff grown in Colorado that I am smoking.
Hey at least SOMEBODY got the joke. Well said Dave. All good points. Of course I'm happiest when someone buys from me. I acknowledged that before. Of course Brett feels great when someone buys a Jackson. I think he acknowledged that too. But we take a longer term approach along with that desire to sell the new guy a Jackson. If someone paddles away in a boat they're going to hate in six months, that's bad.
Personally the best feeling I get making a sale is when I know people have done their research, have tried other shops and other boats, and then they buy from us. That's gratifying, and it never gets old.
Did I mention...
------------- Ruby Creek Boathouse LLC Eddyline, Stohlquist, Bending Branches, Esquif, Skwoosh Cushions, Costa Del Mar shades, Danuu, CRG Rec Repair, Pakboats, YakGrips http://rubycreekboathouse.blogspot.com/ |
Posted By: hugo
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2007 at 12:08pm
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Originally posted by kayaktheworld
. Combine this with their sturdy outfitting, bomber plastic, and on the ball staff, I don't think you could really go wrong. Interesting, my last riot outfitting had more parts in it from stoneway hardware than parts from the riot factory. liked the boat, bitchin' design but come on KTW, sturdy outfitting....? james...how many key chain rings were holding together your riot's backband?
hugo ------------- suck it |
Posted By: Tobin
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2007 at 12:09pm
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Originally posted by kayaktheworld
, So there it is, I plugged the product in this post. Well, at least you "finally" got around to announcing what you support!
Thanks for clearing that up, I was confused.
------------- Sure? |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2007 at 12:10pm
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Hugo- When did you have that Riot boat? ------------- |
Posted By: hugo
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2007 at 12:12pm
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my last one was a turbo that i bought new in 2005 ------------- suck it |
Posted By: Tobin
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2007 at 12:12pm
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Originally posted by kayaktheworld
Hugo- When did you have that Riot boat? Because they used to suck, but now they are good? It was an issue that was addressed?
Huh? I wonder if Jackson is addressing some of the aforementioned issues?
![]("http://www.professorpaddle.com/forum/smileys/smiley42.gif") ------------- Sure? |
Posted By: hugo
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2007 at 12:15pm
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I voiced my problem to the rep, and he told me that he (they) knew about the problem and that there was really nothing to do but to deal with it. I liked the boat, so i dealt with it, but to say that the outfitting is bomber...that is just plain silly. ------------- suck it |
Posted By: Willy
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2007 at 12:18pm
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Funny you should ask, Tobin. EJ spent an hour on a conference call with his dealers recently, fully detailing what they're doing about the quality issues they've had this year. They are embarrassed at the cracked boats (some of you guys out there have had them), but they've altered the manufacturing process and they believe they have it dialed. We'll see soon enough as the 08s come out.
In Jackson's defense, the small number of cracked boats we've seen have all been replaced asap, no hassles, when we (SRK is a Jackson dealer, did I mention that? ![]("http://www.professorpaddle.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif") ) have gotten involved. ------------- Ruby Creek Boathouse LLC Eddyline, Stohlquist, Bending Branches, Esquif, Skwoosh Cushions, Costa Del Mar shades, Danuu, CRG Rec Repair, Pakboats, YakGrips http://rubycreekboathouse.blogspot.com/ |
Posted By: hugo
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2007 at 12:22pm
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Bill, I love you man, I have spent many a nights drinking the grog at your shop, don't let these guys push you around...best shop around. ------------- suck it |
Posted By: Willy
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2007 at 12:42pm
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arrr mate. the grog.
Thanks Hugo. ------------- Ruby Creek Boathouse LLC Eddyline, Stohlquist, Bending Branches, Esquif, Skwoosh Cushions, Costa Del Mar shades, Danuu, CRG Rec Repair, Pakboats, YakGrips http://rubycreekboathouse.blogspot.com/ |
Posted By: James
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2007 at 12:55pm
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I always stir the pot so don't fixate on that so much... Fixate on why? I really do see the dilema here and it has been said so many times I don't understand why were still going round and round. Ok let me put it this way. Santa Claus does not make money. No one really knows who the old fat man really even is. All we really know is that his corporation has an upside down cashflow. If I were to stand on a street corner and tell you about santa claus and his merry freakin elves... I would be promoting his artic workshop. It makes not difference that I benefit or he does ... Promotion is promotion... You are going to get a free gift and all you have to do is be nice though... so its really not promoting right. I am trying to help people receive free packages of joy and yule. It don't make a difference I am still promoting santa claus, and the easter bunny would not see it any other way. My motives make no difference...They both offer free gifts of joy to anyone but they both need promotion too... So if the Easter bunny came to me and said "hey will you promote my eggs and my festival of resurrection", and I replied ... "uh no I can't"... he might say ... "but your promoting santa claus... why can't you promote me? Were both related to religion are you a freakin pansy ... one of those wusses that wants to say Happy Holidays instead of Merry Christmas?" I would of course reply ... "Settle down there cadbury ... I was not promoting Santa Claus... I was just telling people about how they could get an amazing gift for free." to which the bunny would respond..."Ok call it what ever you want will you just tell everyone about my eggs and whats inside them!"... I would be patient and explain one more time... "Look .. I work for the Claus Corporation you jack..rabbit, I am sure that eggs are great but they are not my taste thats why I am doing the christmas gig ok!"... and as the bunny hopped off I am sure you would hear something muffled like "man the little holiday's always get screwed! Maybe Trix are for kids!" This whole thread is about the fact that we like promotions. We like good gear, good deals, good presents and most of all good friends and family. But when your asked if your promoting something don't be afraid of owning up to it. All I am saying is that Promoting is good ... it usually starts when an individual believes in something enough to want to share it with others. I would rather have my friend promote something to me than a TV commercial from a company I don't even know... ------------- |
Posted By: Tobin
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2007 at 1:00pm
Posted By: Tobin
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2007 at 1:03pm
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Oh and a Side Bar!
Does anyone else wonder about the voices in James's head that talks about Easter Bunny's and the Bunny talks back? ------------- Sure? |
Posted By: ashleygoesdisco
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2007 at 1:14pm
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HOLY CRAP GUYS. shut up already! ya'll are too busy arguing to notice that it's started raining! pick the boat you want to paddle, let your buddies choose theirs, stop trying to get everyone else to think you are right, and go boating. geez! ------------- Ashley Duffus Well behaved women rarely make history. www.naiyadays.blogspot.com |
Posted By: Tobin
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2007 at 1:17pm
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Who wants to go kayaking? Its more fun to sit and talk about how great we are! Are there kayakers in Arizona? They must have lots of time to trash everyone else! ------------- Sure? |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2007 at 1:23pm
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Tobin- Yes, the Riot outfitting has been completely revamped since the 2005 models. It isn't even close to the same seat/backband/thigh brace design anymore. I can honestly say the new design is awesome.
Maybe Jackson is addressing their problems now, at this point I would't know. ------------- |
Posted By: Ryan
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2007 at 1:30pm
It's sunny with blue skies in Seattle.. ![]("smileys/smiley21.gif") CC Stilly/Robe not looking good.James you took a turn off the road. Santa Claus... the Easter Bunny? Analogies only go so far dude. You did make me laugh though... Originally posted by James I would of course reply ... "Settle down there cadbury ... Gooble Gooble |
Posted By: James
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2007 at 1:33pm
Hey .... wait a minute kTW, could you hold up on the shameless plugs ... I want to find out where Almquist works before we hit our 3rd page of quality posts made to help people get into our sport! ![]("smileys/smiley31.gif") ------------- |
Posted By: ashleygoesdisco
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2007 at 1:35pm
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Originally posted by Ryan It's sunny with blue skies in Seattle.. CC Stilly/Robe not looking good.Well... It's raining here. And it's supposed to rain there tonight. ------------- Ashley Duffus Well behaved women rarely make history. www.naiyadays.blogspot.com |
Posted By: Tobin
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2007 at 1:44pm
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KTW, I am sure they have, I cant see how a kayak maker could receive warranties / complaints about a problem and not address it? Unless they are Wave Sport? and a gynormous megalopolus company that takes 3 months for a simple warranty and trys to jack the shop that handled it around, But I digress, from what I have seen, (which is limited to my newbie status) all kayak companies, including accessory makers, strive to provide the best product they possibly can.
Like you I found a company that I get along with and personifies what I think customer service should be about.
My joke of the whole thread isn't at a person, its at the attitude. One company cannot survive without competition, it would kill the sport and the forward progression that has been started over the last few years.
It's not about sales, it's not about whos best, its about promotion of kayaking, giving people the oppotunity to experience what we all know. Getting more people on the rivers, this will pave the way for better access, dare I say a whitewater park?
It's done through interest and participation, not taxes and competition.
Natural selection will weed out the companies that don't take care of their own, it may take time. But the cream always rises to the top.
The soap box is available to anyone else ------------- Sure? |
Posted By: James
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2007 at 1:49pm
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If Mr. Almquist could please take the stand....
------------- |
Posted By: justin
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2007 at 3:28pm
| If you are looking to get into the sport grab your boat and head up to bellingham. I would love to guide someone down the nooksack canyon. |
Posted By: Willy
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2007 at 4:28pm
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Did I mention that Princess Sparkle Horse will be at the Deception Pass Dash?
------------- Ruby Creek Boathouse LLC Eddyline, Stohlquist, Bending Branches, Esquif, Skwoosh Cushions, Costa Del Mar shades, Danuu, CRG Rec Repair, Pakboats, YakGrips http://rubycreekboathouse.blogspot.com/ |
Posted By: Tobin
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2007 at 5:46pm
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You mean the imposter Princess Sparkle Horse!
------------- Sure? |
Posted By: Tobin
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2007 at 5:54pm
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Originally posted by James
If Mr. Almquist could please take the stand.... Please raise your right hand, I swear to...
.......... talk trash and lies nothing but trash and lies. So help me god. ------------- Sure? |
Posted By: ashleygoesdisco
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2007 at 5:57pm
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Originally posted by Willy
Did I mention that Princess Sparkle Horse will be at the Deception Pass Dash? ![]("http://professorpaddle.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif") Shameless promotion! I like!------------- Ashley Duffus Well behaved women rarely make history. www.naiyadays.blogspot.com |
Posted By: Willy
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2007 at 6:59pm
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Originally posted by newtobin Originally posted by James
If Mr. Almquist could please take the stand.... Please raise your right hand, I swear to...
.......... talk trash and lies nothing but trash and lies. So help me god. I think he works at a furniture store.
![]("http://www.professorpaddle.com/uploads/bin/2/useruploads/158/2288tn100.jpg") ------------- Ruby Creek Boathouse LLC Eddyline, Stohlquist, Bending Branches, Esquif, Skwoosh Cushions, Costa Del Mar shades, Danuu, CRG Rec Repair, Pakboats, YakGrips http://rubycreekboathouse.blogspot.com/ |
Posted By: Willy
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2007 at 7:21pm
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In the interest of full disclosure I do not work for Professor Paddle. But I think he's very cool. So cool in fact that one particular guest at a recent Halloween Party showed up dressed as "Oppressor Paddle" ... including stick-on avatars and sharpies to post your flames and discussions. So for the unlucky few who weren't there, please visit my PP gallery...
And I know who Almquist works for but I love him anyway. Especially after seeing him in that "Kinky One Nightstand" outfit on Halloween. ------------- Ruby Creek Boathouse LLC Eddyline, Stohlquist, Bending Branches, Esquif, Skwoosh Cushions, Costa Del Mar shades, Danuu, CRG Rec Repair, Pakboats, YakGrips http://rubycreekboathouse.blogspot.com/ |
Posted By: jalmquist
Date Posted: 09 Nov 2007 at 10:34pm
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![]("http://www.professorpaddle.com/forum/smileys/smiley25.gif")
Posted By: Willy
Date Posted: 10 Nov 2007 at 7:07am
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Wait a second. I thought Brett and Martha were the only boaters that hang around Best Friends Espresso. ------------- Ruby Creek Boathouse LLC Eddyline, Stohlquist, Bending Branches, Esquif, Skwoosh Cushions, Costa Del Mar shades, Danuu, CRG Rec Repair, Pakboats, YakGrips http://rubycreekboathouse.blogspot.com/ |
Posted By: water wacko
Date Posted: 10 Nov 2007 at 7:44am
I'm not on contract with Best Friend's Espresso. I can't comment on my affiliation. Possible conflict of interest with my sponsors. Martha is my bff, however. ![]("smileys/smiley32.gif") ------------- "Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." ~Howard Thurman |
Posted By: Scott_H
Date Posted: 10 Nov 2007 at 8:49am
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really hoping this goes to three pages... Another consideration with boats is how much time do you think you have to devote to kayaking. Playboats definitely have their place, but if you are just getting into it, you will find yourself upside down a lot - I speak from experience as I bought one as my starter boat within a few months of first getting on a river. A buddy started kayaking and bought a Pyranha Burn right out of the chute and he seemed to have a lot more fun in his six months than I did with my first six months. I ended up getting a Burn (SRK rocks) more recently and have had more fun running the local runs. There are folks on this board that can run stuff in their playboats that I am waay too freaked out to run in my big boat. So if you know you are going to be engrossed in the sport and going year round and maybe 1-2 a week, you will likely adapt to the playboat’s handling quickly and appreciate its abilities. However, if you think you might be the occasional boater like me (you mentioned other sports competing for your spare time), you might consider a river runner like the Burn and after you get comfy up to Class III-IV, borrow someone’s playboat and see what all that is about. I am obviously biased towards the Burn, but I did not demo a ton of boats before I got it – I think I just got lucky with the purchase and the thing seems to surf pretty well and it has kept me upright when my lack of experience should have indicated otherwise. Others have said the Jackson Fun series has that quality too. For me, I just don’t get out as much and hitting Boulder Drop first thing after a couple month’s hiatus seems a lot less intimidating in the river runner. Then again, I have only been at this sport for 3 years, but thought I might offer a more beginner’s perspective. Frequenting this site and joining trips will make you a better boater and most are more than willing to usher a beginner down the river. |
Posted By: James
Date Posted: 10 Nov 2007 at 9:41am
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That is a rad costume... The shade is the icing on the cake for sure --- To much. The funny thing is that minus the Leif bashing, (cause that happens here to and I think its getting a little old and rude) that seems to be some better thread content than what we have on line... The Crack Addict... Truly a good boat name... Now this has been a question I have had for a while... With the exception of Leif again... it seems like no one ever busts people out on PP. There's never really any full on shit talkin. I read it on the Buzz all the time, see it on BT, and apparently a lot of people have shit writing capability up here it just never makes it to PP? So whats the deal? Is it better for the community this way? or are yall just a bunch of closet trash talkin Beeotchhs? ------------- |
Posted By: ashleygoesdisco
Date Posted: 10 Nov 2007 at 10:11am
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Waiiiit a minute. I'm only a year older than Emily.... Not sure how that helps anything. But... It's true...
------------- Ashley Duffus Well behaved women rarely make history. www.naiyadays.blogspot.com |
Posted By: huckin harms
Date Posted: 10 Nov 2007 at 10:15am
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No James... the costume that got me rolling was the most creative if infamous "Oppressor Paddle" costume. Too much fun... Did you read the messages board? Got to love it! Someone give that girl another beer.And now will this thread please just END!
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Posted By: James
Date Posted: 10 Nov 2007 at 10:20am
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No I did read her threads ... that costume should have gotten a prize for being the easiest to throw together and fastest, yet the most creative at the same time... The avatars are hilarious. J ------------- |
Posted By: Willy
Date Posted: 10 Nov 2007 at 2:26pm
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Originally posted by James
Now this has been a question I have had for a while... With the exception of Leif again... it seems like no one ever busts people out on PP. There's never really any full on s(&* talkin. I read it on the Buzz all the time, see it on BT, and apparently a lot of people have s(*& writing capability up here it just never makes it to PP? So whats the deal? Is it better for the community this way? or are yall just a bunch of closet trash talkin B(*&(*&es? James, it's cuz we all love you and love each other.
![]("http://www.professorpaddle.com/forum/smileys/smiley17.gif") There will most certainly be some trash talk amongst the real athletes at the Deception Pass Dash...
------------- Ruby Creek Boathouse LLC Eddyline, Stohlquist, Bending Branches, Esquif, Skwoosh Cushions, Costa Del Mar shades, Danuu, CRG Rec Repair, Pakboats, YakGrips http://rubycreekboathouse.blogspot.com/ |
Posted By: ashleygoesdisco
Date Posted: 10 Nov 2007 at 8:43pm
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hahahahha.
------------- Ashley Duffus Well behaved women rarely make history. www.naiyadays.blogspot.com |
Posted By: hugo
Date Posted: 11 Nov 2007 at 8:26am
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look at all you bums, the last few posts were made during the prime boating hours....how come no splashy splashy? i've got robe on my mind 2day. i look forward to getting home tonight and reading all the posts you all have made instead of boating (except you james, no boating for you. take care of that wing).
hugo knows. ------------- suck it |