I need help please!!!
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URL: http://www.professorpaddle.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=5993
Printed Date: 09 Oct 2025 at 1:14am
Topic: I need help please!!!
Posted By: James
Subject: I need help please!!!
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2007 at 11:32pm
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This is the real deal folks... Tonight I became aware that our country is in a serious situation.... The outcome of what happens to me with determine my choice to continue living in this country. On the way home from snowshoeing me and a friend saw alot of wild stuff ... one of them was a truck in the ditch about 4 miles from my house on Petrovisky.... As we drove by I watched them snap a rope and I offered to bring my tow kit with my come along back to help ... if they were around I would help and if they were not well cool for them. So I did what I said and headed back with my gear to help them. When I arrived they were stuck still so we made our first failed attempt ... they never made a good anchor and I suggested a new placement on the dakota pickup and we went for round 2.... btw this is in my vanagon. Round 2 was a success and I pulled him right on out. Of course he hit his brakes once out making me stop too... So I jumped out and with no traffic I went to release the tow gear and get my car off the road. As I went to get back into my car I head a loudspeaker say .... Do Not Block the Road with your Vehicle.. I thought ... no problem... I am not hooked to this guy anymore... I will just pull over like I did and then I motioned with a wave out my window that I was clear...so folks could pass without going into the other lane... which was clear ...My hazards were on during the whole time, btw So as I get out to go pickup the tow gear, I see three police cars in the lane... The one in the front of about 15 cars stops in the middle of the road ... rolls his window down and says don't block the road... To which I replied ... I'm sorry about that but I am off the road now, and I was pulling that truck out of the ditch...Your the one blocking the road by the way. The dude was... Period... I was in the road for maybe 3 seconds and this guys stops to yell at me after using his loudspeaker and he parks for a few minutes....So I told him the facts .... I was on the side of the road, and he was in the road. To which he replied... do you want some tickets punk? I thought it was a joke considering the traffic and truck just out of ditch etc... like maybe he was about to laugh ... say thanks and drive away.... but instead he pulls over... turns on his lights and proceeds to have 2 other cars surround us making a total spectical while he writes me a ticket with multiple infractions totalling around $650.00 for blocking the road. Getting the ticket was an ordeal to as another cop sat and verbally assaulted me suggesting that I should do something physical so he could use force.... The whole time a third kept my friend a boater away. I was not going to get physical so they gave me a ticket and started packing up. Of course while this is going on another car gets stuck on the same hill and as they are about to leave I ask the officer.... So I understand why you aren't going to give yourself a ticket for blocking the road... but what about that guy and I pointed to a cadillac that had been stuck in the other lane blocking all west bound traffic. He has been there blocking that lane for about 5 minutes now and I was only there for a few seconds? The officer nicely responds... He is stuck, and you were in our way. All three squad cars drive off leaving the Caddillac stuck in the road, and me standing with a huge ticket wondering how the fuck I just got a huge penalty for helping someone out of a ditch? During this event, I turned to one of the officers and asked him why he would do something that seemed so wrong. He said to me that what I feel was wrong felt right to him. So I have decided that when I contest this ticket if I do not get a complete waiver of all charges and fines, I am going to either become a cop or leave this ruined country that I fought for and now realize is so lost, no one may want to even try and find it. < |
Replies:
Posted By: rockarolla
Date Posted: 01 Dec 2007 at 11:55pm
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I was there, i saw the evil , I triped
out, I said "no way!" these dudes were
totally
forgein.
no
respect!
I walked up to one of the coper dudes and asked "
whats my friend being charged with?
He told me to go back and sit in the car. so I kicked him
in the balls and ran in a
ditch.
no seirious all I could do was
watch
.
James Bro im with you dude , what
ever it
take
lets get em!!!!! ------------- Dave Moroles. 253 241 8550. |
Posted By: Larry
Date Posted: 02 Dec 2007 at 12:38am
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I will be there even if it is at midnight on my anniversary on the planet Mars. I just hope my hatred of all cops, lawers, judges, and the entire corrupt system doesn't make things worse for you or land me in contept, or worse. (if you are a cop, lawer, or judge, I hope offense was taken caus' it was certainly meant) Cops are the lowest of them all, I think they must have been bullied in school and now they're taking it out on the wrold. Sorry to steal your rant James, but I will quit now before I really get going.
Let us now when and where. See you all there.
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Posted By: josho
Date Posted: 02 Dec 2007 at 12:49am
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All cops are not bad. A couple of bad eggs spoil the carton. From the description of the incident I would say you got a bad egg. Once one cop makes a decision the others have no choice but to back him up. Division is weakness. ------------- The fat lady has not sang. |
Posted By: James
Date Posted: 02 Dec 2007 at 1:15am
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Josh are you willing to accept that when a police officer makes a poor
decision, other officers should just watch or help out of support? All cops are not bad, but I can honestly say that after this event the only thing those three police officers did not do to me was physically assault me. The problem in this case was not that there was a Bad Cop. It was that three officers isolated me from people I was helping and basically took turns assaulting me because I "mouthed of by saying that the first officer was blocking the road" This was three cops that wanted to be the shit and they used thier badges and guns and they took my money because they wanted to hurt me and figured if they touched me they would get in trouble.... They knew that writting obscenely ridiculous tickets that waste my time and tax dollars is not something they could be checked on or really investigated as abuse.... That has to change. Go ahead and compare it to eggs. ... I call that armed robery. I have had a gun to me before and I tell you this... I never continued to feel as violated as I do right now after being openly abused by three King Country Sheriff's that even acknowledged the fact that they were abusing me... they even laughed at me and one said ... hey do you have insurance.... you have 30 seconds to get it out.... and as I raced through my wallet he says to his buddy ...... Opp that was 30 seconds ... write him up for no insurance too....what else would you like a ticket for tonight, how about assualting an officer... would you like a free night in jail? Then he says to his other buddy , check his tabs and search his vehicle. .... I will sure think twice about using the battleCat for good causes... ------------- |
Posted By: Wiggins
Date Posted: 02 Dec 2007 at 1:42am
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James,
Sounds messed up. What were the other infractions they cited you with?
Get a copy of the radio log and audio recording of it on discovery as well as the affidavit for the ticket. Make sure to get summons for all the involved officers to appear. If any witnesses can't appear on your behalf get written statements from them (I can e-mail you a copy of one of our statement forms if you want to know what info to include). Attitude adjustment tickets (which it sounds like this is) have questionable legal standing because you are not being punished for the offense.
Not being there and only having your description and Rockolla's comments to go off of I would guess that your comments and Rockolla's presence was a big part of the reason for the number of cops there. Making chipy comments when cops are talking to you is going to gear the cops up for a fight because based on experience they know that may well be what is coming. Rockolla walking into the scene of the stop compunds this because now they have to watch two potential threat areas. They have the legal authority to keep people away from the scene of any investigation (including traffic stops).
Like it or not the public accepts that while on duty cops get to break the traffic laws when it is reasonable to do so. Washington state law codifies it as well. Unless the officers set up a special relationship with the cadillac driver (ie. told him that they were going to help him) they have no duty or obligation to assist him. The cops blocking traffic and not helping the other driver (which I agree they should have done) are not going to be a issue that will help you in court.
The comments they made were definately unjustifiable as far as they were berating you. There is no excuse for calling you a punk or inviting you to fight them. What exactly did they say?
Lastly I would suggest keeping Larry (and anyone like him) out of the court room. The only people the judge will allow to be heard are people who were there or have direct knoweldge pertaining to the proceeding, and if Larry can't keep his mouth shut it is going to hurt your case. Nothing wrong with having support there, but at the end of the day this will be handled in traffic court which is about keeping things moving. If you want to put the screws to the cops that did this traffic court is neither the time nor the place. Complain to their supervisor, work the way up the chain of command until you are satisfied that the issue has been sufficiently dealt with, and if all else fails sue them.
Kyle ------------- I smell bacon |
Posted By: Wiggins
Date Posted: 02 Dec 2007 at 1:51am
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The other officers don't have to back the guy up. I have walked away from other officers, I have told them not to do something, and I have even gone so far as to tell them I will dispute their testimony in court. If I show up at a police incident I am responsible for what happens. If I fail to address obvious abuses of police authority I am just as responsible as the cop abusing his authority.
Kyle ------------- I smell bacon |
Posted By: josho
Date Posted: 02 Dec 2007 at 2:40am
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I am willing to accept an officers bad decision at the time of the incident. At that point you really do not have much of a choice other that making a bad situation worse. I agree there is an abuse of power with in law enforcement agencies. The time to fight is at the judicial level. I have felt violated as well, the peoples word does carry the same weight as police officers. I have had police tell me it did not matter what I said, it would always be a lie. I have had officers flat out lie in their police statements. With the abscence of witnesses, the judge took the lawman's word over mine. Wiggins, I respect your judgement to question another officers decision, but you are in the minority. Most would support the brotherhood of the force. ------------- The fat lady has not sang. |
Posted By: water wacko
Date Posted: 02 Dec 2007 at 5:40am
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James that is terrible. I haven't gotten a ticket in that area, but I've seen a number of cops "just lookin'" if you know what I mean. I could give you my theories, but it doesn't change what happened to you. If you really want to do some damage, get a GOOD lawyer and contact the local media. They love this kind of trash. Maybe even help them launch an internal investigation. I've been fired up about flagrant uses of personal power. I won't tell you what I did, but it might not have been totally legal. ------------- "Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." ~Howard Thurman |
Posted By: septimus prime
Date Posted: 02 Dec 2007 at 8:56am
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Reading that post made my blood boil. Whatever happened to officer friendly helping the cat out of the tree. We are frogs being slowly boiled, and I fear we are going to wake up and find ourselves in a complete police state. I don't have any legal experience, but I will support the cause in anyway i can. I am all about protest.
"They got the guns,but we got the numbers" ------------- Jon Shell Bee |
Posted By: James
Date Posted: 02 Dec 2007 at 9:39am
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I am so Irate still . What happened was not simply a few Officers that felt they needed to make a point. It was 3 young cops that wanted to control someone and they know now that they don't need a reason to mess with you. And if you don't comply well you will be abused without any accountability. I hope everyone of you reading this in the next week does some kind act for a stranger. And I hope that during that kind act you are attacked by officers that are 100% aware of what your doing, but just feel compelled to fuck with you because they want to feel power and control. Why do I hope this... because until you are all offended in the most obsence manners you will never be willing to fight.... I will be 100% honest here folks. The next step past what happened to me last night would have been right out of a scene from a Nazi or Communist movie. If you think I am joking .... well I hope you try and do something nice this week and become the target of an officer who's only goal is to belittle you and control you with force, and the removal of your money openly acknowledging that is what he is doing and telling you ... your screwed. Attitude adjustment tickets.... I love that... Apparently when a cop has a bad attitude and they go off on a ticket spree ... they are writing attitude ajustment tickets right? What is the idea again.... oh yea after writing enough tickets and f**king with enough people the officer can go home feeling powerful and satisfied... What a wonderful method for attitude adjustment. ------------- |
Posted By: James
Date Posted: 02 Dec 2007 at 9:50am
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By the way... I want to know if I have grounds for a lawsuit here are the facts. - I was only given 30 seconds to provide proof of Insurance. Is there really a time limit to provide proof of insurance? - I did not block any vehicles on the road, the first car to approach while I was in the road was an officer and he was not required to stop as I had moved my van well before he arrived. If no one was blocked is that really blocking the road? - You say an officer can pick and choose who he helps. But Leaving the scene of an accident is illegal is it not? How many cars are required to have an accident? What is an accident? The other car ended up blocking the road for over 30 minutes while we worked to get him free. Isn't there some legal obligation to serve tickets to anyone violating a law? - What constitutes descrimination? Would it not be an accurate statement to say the very worst type of descrimination a police officer could exhibit would be the selection of canidates soley based upon who does not need assistance and who does not need help. I want to know how I can personally file a lawsuit against either King County or the individual officer. ------------- |
Posted By: Chuck e fresh
Date Posted: 02 Dec 2007 at 10:22am
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Welcome to the cruel world. I could really dig my teath into this one !! But it will have to wait untill I get back from the river ! I feel for ya James. I can only say one day the people will lead and the so called leader's will have to follow. The insecure power hungry and in my eye's the weak ass jerk off's people put so much faith in will only have to live with thee own action's. Lawsuit's just cost people and you more money. Expect to get hassled more by the police or get less help from them if you go for a lawsuit. P.Defender's are the way to go if you do don't pay some chump that works for the court system to do nothing for you when public defender's have nothing to loose. Our system and most society's suck and have sucked throughout time. Cop's are an organized gang no better than the mafia or those chump punk tag gangs spraying poorly drawn pieces of the alphabet ! Look ahead not behind. it might be hard but let it go keep helping people like the genuinly good natured person you are ! Don't let there negativity turn you positve energy into that cycle. I'd sugest next time saying yes sir thank you for upstanding service too our society and tax payer's money. Wich translates to fuck you officer you punk ass biatch !! I say move too Norway , France or Canada if your jetting. I hope not cause I'd miss paddling with you and just because some bully that got teased in school that happened to somehow not get his parent's gun and pull a columbine when he was growing up, is now got a badge and can decide when ever he feel's like taking out his anger problem or his low self estiem issues on good citizens like yourself ! Let it go , these are your test's in life. It's pass or fail bro ... I'm outty. Peace.L & H !!! Think paddling..... I only read your first post so if I'm just saying what's allready been said or if i'm just fueling the fire then....... F-yeah, let freedom ring !!! ------------- There's no such word as can't!so stop making excuses!!!! |
Posted By: Larry
Date Posted: 02 Dec 2007 at 10:27am
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I never said all cops were bad, although........
ALL cops are corrupt! And before you get on your high horse, Wiggins, Have you ever not given someone an infraction (or not received one yourself) that was fully deserved, simply because that person (or you) was a police officer. Look it up, THATS CORRUPTION!! Usually it goes much deeper than that and I have plenty of examples, but I'll rest my case with that.
All cops are a**holes! They have to be to perform certain aspects of they're jobs. But most cops have lost the ability to turn it on and off caus' it's just easier to be an a**hole all the time.
It is the nature of men to abuse power, perceived or real.
Does this make all cops bad?
James, A judge is always going to side with the police officer. It doesn't matter the reasons, If you don't have absoloute proof that you did not commit the infractions your screwed. What happened to innocent before proven guilty? A judge even told me that in a traffic court it does not fall on the state to prove that I did it, but on me to prove that I didn't. That seems unconstitutional to me especially given a traffic ticket can screw up your life almost as much as a criminal record these days.
Wiggins is probably right, James. Having me (or anyone like me) there may not help your case. But you know that I can hold my tounge when I need to, Unless I am really pissed off. And nothing pisses me off more than s**t like this.
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Posted By: James
Date Posted: 02 Dec 2007 at 10:52am
Posted By: Kiwi
Date Posted: 02 Dec 2007 at 11:17am
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Damn that sucks,
Last weekend my friends and I ran around in speedos barely on the Capitol campus (in Oly) and got stopped by a cop, he threatend to take us to jail, (we are all 15) and was a total jackass, WHATS WRONG WITH A SPEEDO?
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Posted By: Ryan
Date Posted: 02 Dec 2007 at 1:02pm
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Sorry to hear that James. What BS! I'm willing to help out in any way. |
Posted By: water wacko
Date Posted: 02 Dec 2007 at 4:04pm
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Wiggins, I'm curious what would have happened if James had whipped out a video camera the instant he felt an "attitude adjustment" was coming, and then explained matter-of-factly he was videoing the "transaction" between him and the officer for proof in court. I know it would certainly not help the quiet officer's attitude, but legally speaking, is James within his rights to do such a thing if he is not trying to "insight a crowd", "disrespect authority", or "hinder an investigation"?
I think when it comes down to it we are all just people and everybody has bad days and at one point or another everybody abuses the power they have. I feel the same way you do, dude. The system is broken. Personally, I think the world will always be how it is, or at least it will take millenia to be repaired. Everybody has shit and we're all trying to make the best of it. Corruption is world wide. How does the fixing begin? Beat them at their own game and take 'em to court. I'm with you, James. ------------- "Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." ~Howard Thurman |
Posted By: Camrun
Date Posted: 02 Dec 2007 at 5:25pm
| James you start out saying that this situation could determine your choice of staying in this country or not. Well with the current state of things and the fact that I have 2 sons who will be draft age in a few short years, we have the backup residence in BC. |
Posted By: James
Date Posted: 02 Dec 2007 at 5:30pm
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For those that want the facts not my opinon or the officers here they are... This will hopefully get some attorney's or officers here to help me with understanding the infractions my rights and what I need to prove. Hard To read from my copy. Citations RCW 46 ?5 - Una NDC Motor Vehicle on Roadway $124.00 RCW 46.30 - No Insurance $550.00 (See Notes) Officer was Deputy J Eshom Facts that can be verified by the video in the squad cars. 1. I was pulling a vehicle out of a ditch and only in the road for 30-45 seconds. All while no cars where around. The video will show them approaching as I am pulling over. 2. I only was given 30 seconds to provide my insurance. I was seperated from my car and unable to search within the time alotted... I found it afterwards and will have additional originals to offer the court and proof I was insured during the time. 3. My vehicle was not unattended.. I was with it at all times until told to step away from it by the officers. Which the video and audio will show I was more than complaint at all times, even when the officer began to search it and look for other ticketable offenses. I stayed put and quiet only answering when asked and just looking to get the ticket and leave. I will get testimonies from folks that were there but I want to find out how to get copies of the audio and video from the squad cars too. J ------------- |
Posted By: Pixie
Date Posted: 02 Dec 2007 at 6:40pm
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James, Sorry dude. That whole scenario sounds messed up. Especially since you were just trying to help a fellow citizen. I'm glad you have witnesses. I'm not a lawyer but I know that you have longer than 30 seconds to show proof of insurance. The first, and only, time I have ever been pulled over...I had an expired insurance card. I had current insurance but forget to put the new card in my wallet. In any case, I took the info to the courthouse the next day and they dismissed the lack of insurance ticket immediately. So, you shouldn't have a problem with removing that charge.
I suppose if you have witnesses to confirm that your vehicle was unattended, you should be able to get the other charge dismissed. In any case, this doesn't change the fact that there are police officers out there that are on an obvious power trip. Maybe talking with their supervisor is a good idea...but I would try to go in as level-headed as possible. I would guess that you would need a lawyer to get a hold of the audio/videotape from the officer's car.
Lastly, I would hope that the cop-bashing is kept to the officers in this incident specifically. While I agree there are too many bad eggs out there, is it fair for people to slam all of them? Especially since one of your friends (Wiggins?) offered you some advice on how to rectify this whole mess. I'm sure he's thinking it comes with the territory; but this is a whitewater forum after all.
Good luck with everything. Hope your shoulder is doing better.
Pixie
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Posted By: RemAcct2
Date Posted: 02 Dec 2007 at 7:27pm
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Nothing I can add to this, other than commenting on the sad state of our society, where someone trying to help gets in trouble. If you get a fair judge, you should be able to challenge the ticket, though fair judges in king county are a rarity. I should mention that the legal system can be your friend. There are lots of nice ways to harass folks (police included) who wrong you using the legal system. I also think there is a substantial difference in the demeanor of law enforcement once someone leaves king, pierce, and snohomish counties. Think red and blue counties... ------------- |
Posted By: franzhorner
Date Posted: 02 Dec 2007 at 7:47pm
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Good Luck james! I myself am very weary of police officers. Its seems to me that their "protecting and serving" is questionable at best in most situations. The sick thing is that some people actually like busting other people. They like their job. It gives them a sense of satisfaction and delight. I have had cops be great to me and I was actually happy to have them around a couple of times.
We had a similar instance in college with some young officers. They "busted" our party after a sober underage designated driver got a flat tire. They were changing the tire and the cops stopped and harassed my friends and used the drunk 21 year olds being with a sober 20 year old as probable cause to come in our house. My former Force Recon marine roomate became upset. Mace was used. They ransacked our house looking for people and drugs. They never found me and the drugs....Suckers!!! My pregnant roomate who was sober said the cops stunk of liqour and were drunk too. My Marine buddy got charged with everything from public drunk to assaulting a police officer. In the end they couldn't show up to the hearing as they themselves - ALL 3 arresting officers - were in prison for different infarctions. one had beat his woman with his pistol..... All charges were dropped and my friend got an apology from the police department... Go to court dude!! I bet those cops won't even show up and all your charges will be dropped. This story only deepens my hatred for the kind of folk that get into law enforcement. I understand there are good folks who become cops but the profession itself breeds situations like James' way way way way to often.... ------------- MORE RAIN PLEASE |
Posted By: Wiggins
Date Posted: 02 Dec 2007 at 8:45pm
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Holy crap, I should have checked this earlier! This will be a long one. I am going to break this into two posts. The first one will be the help James info. Since you have not been charged with a crime, but an infraction you do not have a right to a attorney. You can get one yourself, but the public defender’s office will most likely not represent you. "Attitude Adjustment" tickets/arrests (which is a name some smartass cop came up with) are when a officer writes a ticket or an arrest that they would not have otherwise due to someone's perceived bad attitude. Usually the person being dealt with is guilty of some sort of violation, but it is simply something that the officer would otherwise ignore. The problem with fighting these types of tickets is that while they are technically illegal, you have to show that the officer was punishing you to be vindictive. One way you can do this is to request copies of the officer's last ten, twenty, fifty, etc. tickets and affidavits to determine how often he cuts people a break. Examples of this would be writing someone for going 35 in a 25 MPH zone when they were going 45, or citing someone for only one violation when the officer observed more. This information should be documented somewhere on the affidavits. If he generally cuts people some sort of break (and most officers do) it opens the door for you to question his motivation for being strict with you. Also look to see if he commonly pulls people over and cites them for the same violations on your citation. This mainly comes into play when officer's stop junk cars expecting to get drugs, a warrant, or something else other than the reason they stopped the car. This is a type of profiling/discrimination and is illegal. What happened to you is a bit trickier to fight because it was not profiling, but more of a harassment issue. The no insurance ticket sounds like the biggest crock of shit I have ever heard. There is no time limit for how long you have to provide your proof of insurance as long as you provide it to the officer upon request. I have waited as long as ten minutes while a driver went through their car. The current training from the CJTC (academy) says that you are to wait a reasonable amount of time before returning to your car to write the citati |
Posted By: dave
Date Posted: 02 Dec 2007 at 8:46pm
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It all goes back to the 60s, those darn VW vans and the relationship they have to the hippie generation. Cops just automatically assume your a hippie and want to give it to you when they see you. The man is sticking it to you because your in a VW van! Power to the people James Jr.!
------------- Nomad |
Posted By: Wiggins
Date Posted: 02 Dec 2007 at 9:31pm
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Josho: You would be surprised. I am not going to say that all cops call other cops on their BS, but lot of what happens during any investigation happens away from the public eye. With people as lawsuit happy as they are today cops don’t back each other up like they used to. I am not the only one in my department by a long shot that feels this way. The bottom line is that most cops like owning a house, having a bank account, having a good job, and owning a car. If someone else in the department feels the need to put all that at risk over their ego they don’t get a lot of support internally. I have stated my position on attitude tickets here before. I don’t agree with them, and I do not write them. Larry: There are three reasons to stop cars. 1) Take enforcement action, 2) driver education, and 3) improve traffic safety. Only 1 out of three requires me to write a ticket. As far as traffic tickets go I have complete discretion when it comes to who I write a ticket to and who I do not. I do not write other cops tickets, but I also don’t write teachers, doctors, firemen, soldiers, and a whole slough of other people. Other cops similarly don’t write tickets to a wide variety of people. On average I write about 1 ticket for every 10 or 15 stops. Anyone I usually don’t write tickets to can get a ticket if they do something stupid enough (again offense related, not attitude); cops included. I have been given warnings before, and I have been ticketed. I don’t benefit from not issuing a ticket I am not required to write, and I guarantee you that if you take away my discretion to not ticket someone more citizens are going to pay than cops. Police corruption is a serious issue, and this is not police corruption by any stretch of the imagination. Besides, you can pull anything you want to get out of a ticket, same goes for me. I get a ticket I pay it, just like everyone else. Kiwi: Questionable taste is not a crime. I have no idea. Water wacko: Short answer is yes, long answer is yes but… If James had a camera he could have whipped it out and started filming. The officers are in a public place so they are subject to being filmed like everyone else. The problem is that if the filming of the incident started to interfere with the investigation it could be interpreted as obstruction. Furthermore anything in the hands can be used as a weapon, and this |
Posted By: Weide
Date Posted: 02 Dec 2007 at 10:15pm
| Tickets for everyone at the Sky today. Rick got a parking ticket and got pulled over. This thread takes on new meaning for me. $150+ in tickets for the trip. |
Posted By: Larry
Date Posted: 02 Dec 2007 at 10:52pm
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Wiggins, I'm going to have to call BS on a couple of your statements.
I have never been asked what I do for a living when pulled over, or been given a break caus' I drive for a living. If they are just assuming this because of the vehicle I drive then that is most certainly descrimination, In fact what you describe is total descrimination, which doesn't make me any less pissed off. I am fine with using descretion in writing a ticket, But using what they do for a living or how much money they make. I haven't seen any evidence of that but if it is true then now I am really pissed off. Now, I have ridden with cops who simply showed thier ID as a cop, and suddenly going double the speed limit was no big deal.
The state patrol issues a ticket in 67% of stops, up from 49% just two years ago. In local jurasdiclions that number is a bit higher. This is because the state patrol only sees 5% of the revenue from the tickets they issue while local jurasdiclion receives 50-60%. I cannot beleive that you would still have a job if your average was under 10%.
Corruption is a very serious issue, and until there is acountability (from outside the police department) then it will continue.
On a seperate note. I have relatives who are police officers, many "friends" (I can no longer call them friends) who are police officers, and had enough run ins (not all bad), And have yet to meet the "exception". So I am sorry Wiggins for being so cynicle.
PS, if you could tell me some of the things I could "pull" I woul apreciate it, caus' I obviously haven't figured it out yet. (not even being innocent has worked yet)
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Posted By: Wiggins
Date Posted: 02 Dec 2007 at 11:28pm
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Larry, There are a lot of ways I can figure out what you do for a living. A lot of places (military especially) require parking permits that are displayed in the vehicle. A lot of people keep work ID's on their keychains or in their wallets. Sometimes I see prior contacts from work in the computer when I check names. A lot of the time people will tell me what they do, and some peole I simply recognize from prior contacts. There are a lot of reasons I don't write citations, relatively few of them are related to what someone does for a living. I have posted on this before and am not going to waste time writing it out again. Basically anyone can talk their way out of a ticket with me, but you aren't going to talk yourself into one.
I make more stops on average than anyone in my squad. I know where your info on WSP stats comes from, but where do you get your info on locals? In my county (which I am told is pretty much right in line with other counties in the state as far as stat per capita go) has never come anywhere near WSP's numbers for stops, tickets, or tickets versus stops ratios. There is a very simple reason for this. WSP are all traffic cops. It is what they do, and why they exist. Locals are not nearly as specialized, save for a few officers here and there who are assigned to traffic units. Patrol does not equal traffic. I spend very little time working traffic.
WSP was featured in the news special on King5 because their policy change was a dramatic departure from what they did in the past and what other departments currently do.
Furthermore I have never once been pushed to go out and write tickets. We get almost none of the revenue generated from tickets. They go back to the county government and into the county coffers. My department's budget stays the same no matter how many tickets I write.
What can you do to not get a ticket if you are stopped? Just a guess, but I suggest curbing the attitude. As it stands I probably wouldn't write you because I don't ticket kayakers.
If this pisses you off I really don't care.
Kyle ------------- I smell bacon |
Posted By: Larry
Date Posted: 02 Dec 2007 at 11:52pm
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First of all, anyone who knows me (we have only met once breifly so I couldn't expect you to) would know that I have never given a cop attitude (aside from court, which didn't hurt my case caus' I had already lost). But that has never helped me.
Second, I don't care how you "find out what I do". Just the fact that you may use that to determine wether or not you write me a ticket is descrimination.
As far as statistics, the 50-60% going to local jurasdictions was in the same report. That doesn' neccessarily mean it goes to the police department. But I have to beleive some incentive is still there. Certainly every city is different, but I certainly know it's there in my city.
Lastly, I certaily don't expect you to care. If you did you wouldn't be a cop, now would you.
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Posted By: PowWrangler
Date Posted: 03 Dec 2007 at 12:45am
![]("http://content.ytmnd.com/content/d/f/f/dffbe53c8a246c1297085832297394c9.jpg") 'cept Wiggins. ![]("smileys/smiley2.gif") |
Posted By: Wiggins
Date Posted: 03 Dec 2007 at 12:49am
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I know the 50% figure came from that same report. I was refering to the statement you made that the local jurisdictions write more tickets than WSP.
A buddy of mine who just retired from KCSO avoided going to court his last few years on the job by not writing tickets on stops. His average number of tickets per month was in the single digits and he worked traffic.
As I said before your job is far from the only reason I don't give tickets. Give me a reasonable excuse, make me laugh, or admit what happened are all examples of things that anyone can do that makes it unlikely I am going to give out a ticket. It is not an exclusive club; anyone can get in. It is not discrimination, it is discretion.
As far as cops not caring, I'll have to remember that next time I choose to stay late for overtime I know I won't get approved for a worthy cause. That only happens about two or three times a week...
Kyle ------------- I smell bacon |
Posted By: water wacko
Date Posted: 03 Dec 2007 at 7:18am
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Dave, is PowWrangler pronounced (po) like po-po? hmm? ------------- "Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." ~Howard Thurman |
Posted By: Wiggins
Date Posted: 03 Dec 2007 at 7:34am
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James,
On the no insurance portion of the ticket in the statute colum it should read RCW 46.30.020. RCW 46.30 references the chapter and section of the RCW (Revised Code of Washington), but not the actual offense. If J Eshom wrote RCW 46.30 on the ticket, but left out 020 (the specific offense) it could be a technicality that you could use to get that part of the citation dropped. Similarly The other infraction should say RCW followed by a series of at least seven numbers in the following format: XX.XX.XXX.
Kyle ------------- I smell bacon |
Posted By: Larry
Date Posted: 03 Dec 2007 at 9:48am
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Sorry Wiggins, I knew that last statement could be taken several ways, but the way it was meant was, Cops cannot care about what others think of them or they could not be cops. Not that you don't care.
As far as the rest, No one is going to change my opinion any mor then they will change yours, they are just too deep seeded.
James, Good Luck. It sounds like you have a case and I hope you fight it as far as you can. I will help in any way I can. (even if that means staying out of it competely)
Now, someone up there said "isn't this a boating forum?" and I hear the rain falling.
A flow study was done recently by a large, diverified group, of many of the rivers in this state (and others), and the results were extremely conclusive. ALL rivers are more fun to paddle when there is WATER in them.
I think more research is needed. See ya!
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Posted By: dave
Date Posted: 03 Dec 2007 at 10:00am
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Next time you want to be a good sameritan, just call a towtruck and wait for it to come then pay the $100 fee to have the vehicle pulled out of the ditch. It's alot cheaper than paying the ticket and dealing with the Romans or Nazis or whatever you want to call our government. ------------- Nomad |
Posted By: Ryan
Date Posted: 03 Dec 2007 at 10:10am
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You the man Kyle! I appreciate your active participation when we have problems with the po-lice, meth heads, etc. |
Posted By: dave
Date Posted: 03 Dec 2007 at 11:26am
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In my previous post, I'm not bashing the police, I'm bashing our lawmakers. They seem to find a way to pass all kinds of crazy laws, but find no time or way to protect someone trying to help another. Isn't that what our founding fathers had in mind when they created this country? What happened? Total power has totaly corrupted and infected our society. ------------- Nomad |
Posted By: huckin harms
Date Posted: 03 Dec 2007 at 12:14pm
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James, crazy stuff- $550 for no insurance- wowsers?! 30 seconds or u lose; that's not funny. Don't forget about the good times at the pass that day, and the dandy ol hike with captain blackstrap.
------------- |
Posted By: James
Date Posted: 03 Dec 2007 at 2:30pm
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No your right ... I had a great day with D1 and I would do it all again. Wiggins like always you rock... Even when you know there are going to be a bunch of monkeys in here that want blood you still post up with help and advice. Thanks man. All cops are not bad, but I honestly feel that we are getting closer and closer to a point where the majority of the police force is becoming unaccountable to the citizens. As long as this continues officers that do care and are out to serve like wiggy will be scrutinized and judged wrongly by the general public who only sees the actions and responses of the majority. ------------- |
Posted By: dave
Date Posted: 03 Dec 2007 at 2:42pm
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Well now James Amandus JR. I was unaware that consumption of the devils swill (aka: blackstrap) was involved! This throws a different light on things..... ------------- Nomad |
Posted By: James
Date Posted: 03 Dec 2007 at 3:15pm
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I don't touch the stuff!
------------- |
Posted By: Chuck e fresh
Date Posted: 04 Dec 2007 at 9:52am
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I will never ignore people in need. Help other's if you can, when you can. When is that time ? When you choose too !! Everyone can be a cop, a fireman, an e.m.t . Of course training can make a huge difference but the will to do the right thing is within everyone. That's if the right thing in your mind is the right thing !! Everyone has different view's that's why I don't trust or rely on anyone. You have your own conscious to live with help or don't help. The downfall to our society is just that. People usually don't want to help for one " it's someone else's job !" Two they're simply selfish 3 they are to ignorant to do anything. It comes down to education, compassion and then taking action. Which is somtimes the hardest thing to do because most Americant's are too lazy. I'm trying to make this post not about cops cause even though I disagree with our society and how it is run, It's how you handle yourself that will or will not get you in trouble or save you from it. How ever you look at everyone want's to blame someone else for your own distress. There are few that take responsability. I hate the scapegoat attitude but that's American't's for ya. If somthing dosn't go your way point the finger at someone or something and if that dosn't work you alway's have God and the Devil to blame for your problems as well. So the next accident you might feel like helping out with you hopefully will help out and not be swayed by what may happen if you do because of what -eva. nuff said bout dis topic yo. May I recomend a great movie on health insurance in the world "Sicko " by Michale Moore. Very very good, Off topic but still everyone should watch it ! Oh and paddling the other day was wicked sick too. A foot or more of snow everywhere on the sky. Steven's should open thurs. Yee haa !! ------------- There's no such word as can't!so stop making excuses!!!! |
Posted By: water wacko
Date Posted: 04 Dec 2007 at 1:14pm
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Well said, Mr Fresh ------------- "Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." ~Howard Thurman |
Posted By: water wacko
Date Posted: 04 Dec 2007 at 3:37pm
In keeping up with the continuity of this thread, I went to court today, James, not to contest a ticket but to explain my circumstances. I did, technically, do the deed (traffic) and I wanted to expand for the judge so he/she could understand my position, and reasoning. Well, long story short, the judge was a total B-I-T-C-H! She didn't reduce the fine one penny ($216). I don't deserve it, I tell you! uh. I don't believe that all government workers are bad, then i would have to say that all people are bad. Only some are bad. I just wanted to share my pain. Ecuador sounds nice. ![]("smileys/smiley16.gif") ------------- "Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." ~Howard Thurman |
Posted By: erikSANDSTROM
Date Posted: 04 Dec 2007 at 3:43pm
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This thread has taken a much needed turn towards positive.
Just like kayakers, there are cops who are dicks, and cops who are nice. All the Po I've dealt with in WA have been pretty nice, and have been helping me (2), or have excused my transgressions with just a warning (2). I do feel bad, not just for Wiggins (who I like alot and have respect for) and cops when people steriotypically rag on a whole group of whoever; it isn't good to do that. As for James: That sucks bro, you were doing the right thing helping out; I plan to pour some drink out for you next beer. Good luck vindicating yourself and with that shoulder. What were all the tickets at the Sky about last weekend (Weide, Brett, others)? You should have started singing "lets get physical" to that punk cop. Sue his ass! ------------- This river don't go to Aintry. You done taken a wrong turn. |
Posted By: RemAcct2
Date Posted: 04 Dec 2007 at 7:37pm
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Erik is right here. A few really nasty things have been said on this thread, and while I certainly agree that there are valid points, remember that there are other police officers out there like Wiggins that deserve our admiration, respect, and assistance to improve both our communities and the police force itself. And James, if you need any character witnesses, give me a call... ![]("smileys/smiley36.gif") ------------- |
Posted By: Kyle K
Date Posted: 04 Dec 2007 at 8:00pm
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My turn... As Eric says, cops come from the same group as all of us; people. Some are good, some are bad and most are a combination of both, just like you and just like me. The difference is that a cop can have a direct impact on your day/life when you are dealing with him/her. This makes us take them a little more seriously, as it should.
Larry, you think all cops are jerks? Say that when your mother is being assaulted by some meth head and a cop risks life and limb to come to her aid. Don't think that doesn't happen. I spent 4 years running a crazy Pioneer Square nightclub in the '80's and I had more than a few cops help me out with some really scary people. I also witnessed some being bullies too. Again, there are all kinds of people.
Two things to know about cops:
One: They are expected to (and will) risk their life to protect the rest of us.
Two: When you live in a state of constantly being disliked for your job, not your persona, it can't help but be trying at times. Which brings us to appropriate behavior when being pulled over or talked to by a cop. No matter what you've done, and it's likely you've done something, however minor, the first rule of engagement is don't be a smart ass. You always say something along the lines of "My apologies, it won't happen again.". And, if you really want to pursue it, "May I explain what I was doing?"
Which is why I couldn't help notice that James admits to pointing out to the cop that he (the cop) was the one blocking traffic while he was talking to James. Now, I understand that James may have been a bit miffed as he was being a good samaritan and the cop was obviously having a bad day and shouldn't have been hassling James at all. But why would you antagonize a cop that was obviously in a bad mood? In their line of work jokes and/or sarcasm are not appreciated at all.
Now I agree that what happened next was way overboard as far as the cops reaction. The ticket was patently unfair and the treatment James was subjected to was inexcusable. I think James should both fight the ticket(s) and file a complaint. I hope he beats the ticket and I hope the cop(s) are reprimanded accordingly.
Admittedly, I'm not sure I could have shut up either, but I have to think that this whole thing would never have developed into this mess if James had simply held his tongue.
For the record, I do hate the fact that our municipalites use tickets as a revenue source. That's always been a sore point. Although I agree that we need some kind of enforcement to make sure everyone drives/behaves in a safe manner, the punishment shouldn't be looked at as a source of revenue.
James, good luck with your case. I hope you win. ------------- "I used to be somebody, now I'm somebody else." Bad Blake |
Posted By: Tobin
Date Posted: 04 Dec 2007 at 10:35pm
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Kyle K.. I in no way support the abuse of power administered by police officers, however. I have a rule, when pulled over, or confronted by a law enforcement official, my responce is "Yes Sir" "No sir"
I, in my heart of hearts believe that James was wronged by our boys in blue, it is unfortunate that I have acknowledged the assualt on my civil liberties to the point that I inherintly respond in an acceptable fashion! I roll over and say what I think they wanna hear.
The question that keeps rising in my mind everyday is: If you smash you self in the head with a brick.. Will it hurt? Yes! So dont do it. Thats how I feel about little old me trying to change anything. It wil cost more in effort and money than I could ever achieve?
I know this is the lamb mentality to justice, but I dont feel that if I make my life more difficult to prove a point, the point will be proven?
In the end I stand up for James, I believe in what he is trying to do, I just dont care enough anymore to fight the fight!
Good Luck James, Go get them Tiger! ------------- Sure? |
Posted By: SupaSta
Date Posted: 04 Dec 2007 at 11:09pm
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Dam guys! It took me over half an hour to read that! A couple of things: James, after you get over being pissed off, re-read the stuff Wiggins posted about how to help your case and what it will take to push it higher up the food chain. This is going to require that you are level-headed and smart. I have faith that you can do it; just know what you are getting into and what you can realistically expect to happen. I've had my fair share of run-ins with cops that pissed on my parade; but looking back on it, there's a lot I could have done to side-step the whole issue. Kyle's got a point which I think the cop bashers missed completely.
![]("http://www.professorpaddle.com/forum/smileys/smiley18.gif") Wiggins, I admire your thick skin my brother.
![]("http://www.professorpaddle.com/forum/smileys/smiley16.gif") Dan ------------- Life is short, paddle hard! |
![]("http://www.professorpaddle.com/forum/smileys/smiley10.gif")
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Posted By: James
Date Posted: 04 Dec 2007 at 11:15pm
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if you were in the middle of doing an act that you felt was above and beyond (going home getting supplies going out to help someone ect...) and a police officer after you had obeyed all of his requests continued to yell at you, all while he was violating the very same law in a more dangerous manner.... well the hypocrisy overwhelmed me. Lets all try to remember that a traffic stop is different than helping cars out of a ditch too. ------------- |
Posted By: James
Date Posted: 04 Dec 2007 at 11:22pm
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And its not like I said move your f**king car you lazy stupid son of a bitch... or Drop that heat wagon and lets get busy you half cocked blank firing little tit of a old sweaty sow I was really actually very polite ------------- |
Posted By: Kyle K
Date Posted: 05 Dec 2007 at 9:25am
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James,
As I wasn't there, I don't know what was said or in what tone of voice. I was just making a comment, an assumption really, based on my experiences and anecdotal evidence. Even when someone of authority is in the wrong, they hate hearing it. I know, I'm a parent and I've said regretable things when my kid was just pissing me off, even if he was in the right. Sometimes all it takes is one little phrase.
Speaking of my kid, he just got a ticket for skateboarding on the sidewalk if front of Westlake Center. He was on his way to catch a bus and was late to school. When the cop stopped him and questioned him my son didn't say anything wrong (as he tells it) but he finally admitted to me that he used a bit of a snide tone. He thought he was being subtle but I doubt the cop did. Either way he ended up with the ticket.
Back to your incident: Who knows what put the guy in that frame of mind that day. Considering the snow on the roads I assume he was dealing with a lot of accidents, etc. Still, the fact that he witnessed you helping another motorist and actually gave you grief in the first place bites. That's really inexcusable. The other cops buying in to bullying you around sucks as well.
I hope you beat all of this in court and I hope you get somewhere with your complaint. My only advice is to be very polite and not act self righteous. Judges and cops work together all the time so you need to persuade the judge that you are a very level headed and reasonable individual who was just trying to help out another person in need.
As for leaving the country, please don't. We need good people here like you who will fight this kind of crap and change the system. In my opinion, the best way to beat something is to learn it completely and then strike from within. Short of absolute revolt I don't think there is any other way. And I don't think this country is ready for revolt at the moment. Just look at the way we've laid down like sheep for the current administration's lies, deceit and abuse of our constitutional rights. Unfortunately, I don't think you'll find it much better anywhere else. I've travelled a good bit and every place seems to suffer from some kind of authority abuse. Frankly I think that may be part of the human condition.
Good luck!
Kyle ------------- "I used to be somebody, now I'm somebody else." Bad Blake |
Posted By: Chuck e fresh
Date Posted: 05 Dec 2007 at 2:31pm
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Cop bashing seem's a bit harsh for voicing your opinioin about your interaction's with cop's. I barley go into details about my expeirences with the justice system cops are just a miniscuel dot on the wide line that cover's our society. I'd say gay bashing is somthing you should be conserned about more than cop bashing. Cop's are a protected spieces. I don't feel bad if they get a few truth's exposed about there action's. I do feel bad when I here about people almost killing one of my friends because there gay. That's how they are, they didn't sighn up for it ! Cop bashing ....pa -sha !! I don't feel bad for cop's but just like anything I don't judge a book by it's cover, no matter if it has swine on it or not !! ------------- There's no such word as can't!so stop making excuses!!!! |
Posted By: James
Date Posted: 05 Dec 2007 at 4:53pm
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Since I started this thing I am going lock the thread up for a while... When I get finished with court I will post the results here so you guys can check it out. I don't think I am going to be wanting tons of folks there though. A few experienced folks told me that it might be a bad idea and I trust them. Just FYI I am locking the thread so it does not get to far off topic as they often do. And to wrap it up until court, let me say I have had contact with more law enforcement and law type workers in the last week in response to this than I have all year. They have all been really helpful, understanding and copasetic... It just goes to show were all humans, we all make mistakes, we all need forgiveness and we all need to have the opportunity to grow and try again. These dudes made some mistakes, but the underlying point I would like to make is that if mistakes are not pointed out, explained and understood no one can learn from them. I hope they are willing to accept that they made mistakes and could have done a better job so they can grow past it. Ps.. nice post count Kyle... to bad you can stay in that position forever ![]("smileys/smiley10.gif") ------------- |
Posted By: James
Date Posted: 03 Mar 2008 at 1:18pm
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This is a quick follow up to those that were curious how this whole event ended up. Dave and I went to court this morning and I contested my case with the support of dave as a witness to the event. The insurance charge was dropped without question because I had a letter stating my coverage at the time faxed in from Geico. Because I apparently requested that the officers be present with the wrong dept. they were not there. I gave my testimony and briefly described the events in basically the same method I have described them here. The judge was very clear that this was not the place to discuss the actions of the officers but rather the facts surrounding the case. After I gave my testimony, Dave was sworn in and also gave his testimony. After we spoke the judge explained despite our good intentions, that it is illegal in the state of washington for any party to assist another motorist unless they are a liscensed and bonded firm that is equipped with the state approved equipment required for roadside assistance (Lights, Cones ect..) She seemed like she was going to stick on the fine so Dave started to chime in again to re-state the facts.... He got politely shutdown and was told his turn to speak was Over! The judge then announced that the fines would all be waived but gave me a verbal warning not to assist motorists again, then she excused the actions of the officers with the statement that it was probably just a "Bad Day". I am glad that I did not get a ticket, but I am very disappointed that nothing is going to be done in regards to the actions of the officers. Despite a Internal Investigations case I have filed and multiple contacts to his superior officers every official I have spoken with including Capt Webster in the Internal Affairs Office has basically told me that nothing is going to happen of course without directly saying that... Let it rest ect... Not a big deal ect.... Just like the officer told me when they were harrassing me. Complain all you want, Nothing you say or do is going to help and nothing is going to happen to us. They are correct there is no question about it. Now I will always look back on past Seattle PI articles with a fond smile, when I remember the story about the "Mysterious Good Samaritian" that used his farm tractor to help pull out cars and plow roads during the last snow storm, receiving compliments from the Sheriffs office and the local press. I will enjoy a good chuckle when the next snow storm hits and thousands of motorists are stranded like always, and if left to just towing companies wait times reach over 3 - 4 days but yet miraculously the vehicles are cleared by other means, bringing traffic relief back to the highways which would have taken days and millions of dollars if left to only Towing Companies. Enjoy the fact that because your are an American you have freedom, but not the right to help people that are in need. In this day and Age only the government has the ability to select the best parties to provide assistance, stated by my judge, and demonstrated by continued events such as Hurricanes, Tsunamis, Wars, and Snow Storms, we can easily see that our government is eager to receive assistance and proclaim hero's when a disaster exposes our governments in-ability to perform, but when the disaster is not identified in the public eye and our government appears in control, assistance is not acceptable, and those that attempt to help are viewed and prosecuted for their illegal actions. SImply stated assisting your neighbor or stranger indicates that the government is not able to function as well as a you, and these actions are viewed as attacks against our governments ability to perform. This system now operates without the understanding that we the citizens make up the government, but rather that we are a seperate group of people controlled and maintained by our government. If we can only provide as ------------- |
Posted By: Otter Boy
Date Posted: 03 Mar 2008 at 3:08pm
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Hey James, thanks for the update. I'm glad the fines were waved. I can only shake my head, mutter under my breath and find out how to join the Libertarian Party.
- OB
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Posted By: slickhorn
Date Posted: 03 Mar 2008 at 3:09pm
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Damn James, that's something else. I guess it is a victory of sorts that you aren't being fined -- congrats there. I guess I'm so jaded I'm not very surprised by the rest of it, but I admire your efforts to wring a victory from the unresponsive bureaucracy. I guess shit like this is why I don't apply for river permits anymore. When they start telling me where I can camp when, and how long I can stay there... well, I'd rather be elsewhere. ------------- |
Posted By: Wiggins
Date Posted: 03 Mar 2008 at 4:50pm
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I am glad the fines were dropped, but that is bullshit. I have never heard anything about private parties not being able to assist motorists or remove stranded vehicles from the roadway (with owner permission of course). We allow people to use private citizen tows all the time, and at times have even done traffic control for them while they removed the vehicle. Maybe it is a King County Ord., but even if it is the officer/deputy did not write you that ticket. Your ticket was writen for parking an unattended vehicle on the roadway. Whether you were in violation of that particular statute or not is irrelevant to the case. I have had tickets thrown out because I cited for the wrong offense and another one fit the offense commited better (there are about five laws on how to do a proper lane change titled "unsafe lane change"). Everyone in the court acknowledged that the driver had committed an offense, but it did not matter since I had charged him for the wrong one.
Were your fines dropped or were the tickets dismissed?
Did you get the officer's affidavits on discovery? If you could scan those and send them to my e-mail I would be curious to see what they wrote.
On the KCSO side of things I am sorry that nothing is happening. If you still want to go after the people involved my next step would be the press, county council, or a citizens review panel.
If nothing else look at it this way: the officer writing you those tickets probably cost the county more than the fines on the ticket after all the manpower hours used in court, and you dealing with various KCSO people, and now they don't get the fines to cover any of those costs. It not be the victory you wanted, but the county definately lost on this one.
Kyle ------------- I smell bacon |
Posted By: water wacko
Date Posted: 03 Mar 2008 at 7:53pm
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James, I'm glad the fines were all dropped. I think this whole thing can be summed up by saying, "We can all rest easy, the gov't has everything under control*"
* = sarcasm ------------- "Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." ~Howard Thurman |
Posted By: arnobarno
Date Posted: 03 Mar 2008 at 9:35pm
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Well, I am the ultimate cynic on government (among many things) and hardly find this outcome surprising though am also glad that your fine was waived. In general, governments are great at authority and lousy at responsibility. Authority is easy - get out the cuffs! But responsibility actually requires them to do something involving real talent (sorry Kyle - this certainly isn't meant to denigrate the good work that you and many other law enforcement officers do on the front lines). Government starts out saying they are going to help you but ultimately ends up pushing you around. Be careful granting them more authority hoping to get them to take on more responsibility. It won't happen. ------------- arn9schaeffer@gmail.com (remove 9 for my real email address) |
Posted By: montana mark
Date Posted: 04 Mar 2008 at 12:47pm
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you know you're a redneck when: sounds like a cluster. i can just imagine a bunch of ya-who's making multiple attempts, snapping ropes, discussing new anchors, and jerking off in the middle of the road while it is snowing... and then to save the day a HIPPIE VAN comes to the rescue. the cop should have thrown your ass in jail. don't worry guys hillary or o'bama will save you! tee hee MM ------------- montana mark |
Posted By: rainpaddle
Date Posted: 04 Mar 2008 at 2:20pm