Some rivers I want to check out...
Printed From: ProfessorPaddle.com
Category: General
Forum Name: Whitewater Forum
Forum Discription: Open Discussion Forum. Whitewater related subjects only
URL: http://www.professorpaddle.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=7327
Printed Date: 04 May 2025 at 9:33am
Topic: Some rivers I want to check out...
Posted By: jP
Subject: Some rivers I want to check out...
Date Posted: 11 Sep 2008 at 1:43pm
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The Bennet Book has a whole bunch of runs that go during the rainy Season, from November to March or so. Pretty much the whole first 150 pages or so is chock full of them. Many of these rivers are in South Western Washington, and most of them I've never paddled. There's the Chehalis drainage, the Toutle (Hollywood Gorge), The Grays R., and some tribs of the Wind I'd like to explore. And of course I'd like to return to the Tilton.
Lots of these are in the class III-IV range, accessible to paddlers of a wide range of skill levels. so I'm throwing the idea out there for people to think about and keep in mind for later this winter.
Maybe there's a reason why there isn't more of a buzz for some of these runs, if so, I'm willing to go and personally find out why. I'll paddle any river once. I like checking out a new blue line on the map. Let me know if anything in particular interests you, send me a PM or whatever, and maybe we'll plan some trips!
jP
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Replies:
Posted By: jP
Date Posted: 11 Sep 2008 at 1:53pm
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Oh yeah--- How could I forget? One of the runs I really want to check out is the Puyallup Gorge above Electron. It's supposed to be a class IV version of the Carbon. Anyone ever done it? I guess there's some cost prohibitive access issues, so maybe that would be a "no".
"Do the Puyallup"
And I'd like to check out S. Prairie Creek class V, provided I can get a beater boat for it. ------------- 🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋 |
Posted By: franzhorner
Date Posted: 11 Sep 2008 at 1:58pm
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I love the Wind, Chehalis, Grays, and Tilton and I'm down to run them when they come in. My first choice would be the Gray's since I've only run it once and it was BADASS. I think it rivals the Cascade. The Upper Wind is just so great. I love that run. I've only run the covered bridge section of the Chehalis and it was super sweet at high water. I would love to that again. The Tilton is pretty good too although I would do the others over it any day.. I also need revenge on Yellowjacket Creek! Bring on the Rain! ------------- MORE RAIN PLEASE |
Posted By: Kiwi
Date Posted: 11 Sep 2008 at 5:05pm
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I really want to check out the puallip gorge. accordidng to bennet the access fees are something like $13 but that was 10 years ago, it could have changed.
and the tilton has a sweet gorge in the last mile or so.
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Posted By: water wacko
Date Posted: 11 Sep 2008 at 6:00pm
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I looked into access on the Puyallup last year and current "access passes" are in the $400 range. That said, I'd love to get into that gorge, too. I've also heard that S. Prairie Creek has some very sharp, unfriendly rock that cracks boats. That said... ------------- "Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." ~Howard Thurman |
Posted By: Kiwi
Date Posted: 11 Sep 2008 at 8:13pm
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on AW it says it's $165 for a annual key...
idk, if someone got it it could be shared or something...
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Posted By: James
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2008 at 9:35am
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I have checked this out before, all the way to calling and showing up to talk with Campbell Land Management. The bottom line is that at one time you could buy an access key for the day or weekend, per person or per car. Due to high volumes of dumping and abuse of the land they discontinued that policy. The current policy is now the sale of access per person or per family per year only. There are no monthly or weekly usages allowed. At last the family access was around $400.00 per year. I have posted the details on who you can contact at Campbell land management on the Puyallup Gorge river page. So far I don't know of anyone that has done this. If there is significant interest I am sure that 8-10 people could split that fee up, the problem would be getting Campbell to issue access to the group as one family, which they indicated to me that they would not do. ------------- |
Posted By: Kiwi
Date Posted: 12 Sep 2008 at 11:47pm
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well, has anyone actully been in there and run it?
I mean is it worth the $400?
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Posted By: James
Date Posted: 13 Sep 2008 at 12:07am
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Considering the dense amount of goods, sporatic nature of beta and variety around this area .... I would not trust anyone but myself to make that call. I am pretty sure that there have been guys that have run it before. Was it on cascade classics? ------------- |
Posted By: water wacko
Date Posted: 13 Sep 2008 at 7:18am
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I know Almquist, Stano, Exe, and some others made an orvernight trip out of it. They accessed it from the Park side and ran a lot of stuff before getting to the gorge. BITD ------------- "Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." ~Howard Thurman |
Posted By: jP
Date Posted: 16 Sep 2008 at 2:59pm
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If there's any other way to access it from upstream, I'd be down. I mean, I'd even do a three day trip if it meant I could put in upstream of the put in requiring an access fee. Otherwise, $400 is, like, a whole tour of California rivers living high on the hog. $13 for one day is reasonable. I don't see myself padling that stretch more than once anyway. Who needs a year pass? If I'm gonna go that route, I'd just get a ski pass somewhere.
From the Park side, huh? That sounds like the adventure for me. ------------- 🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋 |
Posted By: jP
Date Posted: 16 Sep 2008 at 3:03pm
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S. Prarie Crk is listed in Bennet's book as a boat breaker ("Bring a spare") -- so I really don't HAVE to hit that one up. I mean, even with a disposable boat: who wants to be stuck in a canyon w/ a broken boat after going in knowing that such an outcome was probable? I guess we can cross that one off. Or go when it is PUMPIN da JOOSE! (the Joose reference is for you James, as I know you have a soft spot in your heart for said beverage) ------------- 🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋 |
Posted By: jP
Date Posted: 16 Sep 2008 at 3:04pm
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And the Grays-- Really want to check that one out!!! ------------- 🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋 |
Posted By: Kiwi
Date Posted: 16 Sep 2008 at 3:27pm
| the only video on the grays river page on aw is a cataraft getting beatdown... |
Posted By: WA-Boater
Date Posted: 16 Sep 2008 at 7:55pm
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S. Prarie creek is a great run. There are some hard drops, a big 25-30' waterfall and some difficult portages. We paddled it with a crew of 6 or 8 a few years back, and I remember it was challenging getting everybody into eddies. All in all it was a good time and I'd recommend at least one run down before you write it off.
It is hard to get a good water level. I'd stick with a healthy flow rather than a low one. The spare boat deal is more of a joke than reality. If run at low flows, it would be hard on boats just like the Upper Upper Cispus or Ohane at low flows. I think they had a bad experience. Ours was great.
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Posted By: 14kayaking2
Date Posted: 16 Sep 2008 at 9:22pm
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I think that there should be a new book. Anyone seen Whitewater of the Southern Rockies? That is the ne age of guides that is for sure. Maybe someone should start working on something like that for around here.... Any takers? James? Wetmouse? ------------- "We are only boaters between swims" Matty |
Posted By: franzhorner
Date Posted: 17 Sep 2008 at 10:53am
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That was me getting the beat down on the Grays. That flow was too high. We climbed/hiked out from that spot. It took 5 throw bag tosses to get me out of there. The toss that got me was done with a coiled rope and extended the full length of the line (60ft). Don't be fooled by that gauge! The Naselle and Gray's don't directly correlat as led on in the guide book! Although I would like to try at that high flow again, I found half the flow to be super fun all the way to the take out! PS the video is posted on PP too... ------------- MORE RAIN PLEASE |
Posted By: jP
Date Posted: 17 Sep 2008 at 11:14am
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Yeah, Franz!! I'd be into goin with you if you make it back to the Grays this winter!! I'm comfortable being on the river with catoats-- although, when I went to the N. Frk of the Payette a few weeks back, and found myself running with Shelly and the gang, I found that run to be very tough to run with the cats. But that's a unique run all its own.
WA-Boater: thanks for your input, dude! I figure if you add enough water, it's gotta smooth out some. Never been an "E.L.F." boater (although my mom is a hobbit, and my dad is an ogre). I'm sure too much water would be too much.
So your account is enough for me "un-cross" off.
Two questions for ya:
1) would ya go back?
2) what sort of flows did you have? Do you remember any cfs numbers? ------------- 🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋 |
Posted By: jP
Date Posted: 17 Sep 2008 at 11:21am
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14kayaking2: I agree there needs to be a revised addition of Bennet's book. I wish it could be just that: a revised addition. I think overall it is a great book full of lots of info that is still rellevant today. It would be great if he could turn it over to a group of people to add and update the info in it, rather than reinventing the wheel and starting a whole new one from scratch. Then again, maybe the internet is the new medium for such info. as mobile devices get better, more of us are using them in more and more remote places. On the other hand a book is cool because it is truly a stand alone "device"-no need for a sattelite connection that trees and canyons can block, or some weak-ass cellular connection that is unreliable. Maybe we need to flesh out the descriptions of rivers here on this site. ------------- 🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋 |
Posted By: Kiwi
Date Posted: 17 Sep 2008 at 3:09pm
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way to go!!! that as a entertaining video!
the only people who I know who have run that ended up having a bad swim and one guy hiked out. It sounds like a pretty serious run for IV+.
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Posted By: 14kayaking2
Date Posted: 17 Sep 2008 at 8:07pm
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yeah. I agree with that Wetmouse. It really doesn't need a reinvention...more revision. But a serious one at that. In the last few years a lot of new "creeks" have opened up, and so has the average ability risen. It makes it so that a fair look at all of it is not a bad idea. Digital is great, but still not like having the text anywhere, anytime. Also the digital age definitely takes a bit out of the adventure. Though the argument can be made for guides too. In my opinion making the revision would be the adventure in itself... Find a fair group of boaters interested that have a like mind in classifying.... It would be fun to be working toward something like that, and quite rewarding upon completion. Hey I'm having trouble finding that video..got a link? ------------- "We are only boaters between swims" Matty |
Posted By: Kiwi
Date Posted: 17 Sep 2008 at 8:48pm
| http://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/Photo_detail_photoid_17114 - http://www.americanwhitewater.org/content/Photo_detail_photoid_17114 _ |
Posted By: Jeff
Date Posted: 17 Sep 2008 at 9:27pm
Count me in for some of the IV+ type stuff! Not sure about full on V yet, but I'm always looking to check off runs in my guide book, even if it's only to say, "Well, I don't need to go back and do that again!" Chehalis, Tilton, etc, as well as stuff up on the Peninsula - Matheny, Dungeness, Grey Wolf?? How about the North Fork of the Tolt? It is supposed to be a Class V canyon and it is not far from my house. Access is tricky and I can't get O'Keefe to write back to me with any beta. Maybe even the Raging River in Fall City. I know there is a lot of wood and may require a low water scout/saw mission. Would like to check out the upper stretch of the Rapid for wood clearing as well. Ok, I'm rambling now... ------------- "What could possibly go wrong?" www.flickr.com/photos/jeffdwyer/ |
Posted By: Kiwi
Date Posted: 17 Sep 2008 at 9:54pm
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the grey wolf has a amazing mile or so canyon section of whitewater, class IV ledges and fun boatscouting. this was with 420 (haha) CFS on the dungeness guage. then there was one other memorable fun class 4+ drop that ended with a log limbo to a quck ferry to aviod being stuffed under a log. the rest of the drops, decapitation canyon, had wood in them. be careful because the entire run had wood in it. when in doubt scout. that being said, it was a great run, the hike + frequent portages combined with a attempt on mt constance the next day, were very tiring. but I think it was well worth it.
I wouldent go in there with more than 700 on the dungeness guage, unless I knew the wood situation.
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Posted By: Meghan
Date Posted: 18 Sep 2008 at 5:03am
| NF Tolt does have some class V and some class IV and some swift currents. |
Posted By: slickhorn
Date Posted: 18 Sep 2008 at 8:42am
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Originally posted by wetmouse 14kayaking2: I agree there needs to be a revised addition of Bennet's book. I wish it could be just that: a revised addition. I think overall it is a great book full of lots of info that is still rellevant today. It would be great if he could turn it over to a group of people to add and update the info in it, rather than reinventing the wheel and starting a whole new one from scratch. Then again, maybe the internet is the new medium for such info. as mobile devices get better, more of us are using them in more and more remote places. On the other hand a book is cool because it is truly a stand alone "device"-no need for a sattelite connection that trees and canyons can block, or some weak-ass cellular connection that is unreliable. Maybe we need to flesh out the descriptions of rivers here on this site. Bennett is aware and interested in revising the book. The only reason it hasn't happened yet is that there is still stock of the current edition. Once it's sold out, there are tentative plans, as I understand it, for a 3rd edition. ------------- |
Posted By: franzhorner
Date Posted: 18 Sep 2008 at 8:49am
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Matheny Creek is absolutely one of my top picks for kayaking. The upper is awesome and there are so many miles of good whitewater in the middle and lower sections. I spent my 30th birthday in there and I can't wait to get back.... Here's another link to me getting trashed on the Grays... http://www.professorpaddle.com/media/videoview.asp?File_Id=2560 ------------- MORE RAIN PLEASE |
Posted By: WA-Boater
Date Posted: 18 Sep 2008 at 4:32pm
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1. Yes I would go back. 2. The flow was 1000 dropping to 800cfs.
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Posted By: 14kayaking2
Date Posted: 18 Sep 2008 at 8:08pm
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Damn... that hole is a lot stickier than it looks. Nice work in there. thanks for the link.
------------- "We are only boaters between swims" Matty |
Posted By: WA-Boater
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2008 at 6:55pm
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Grays River beta...
Jason Rackley's site...Grays River...good write up.
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Posted By: water wacko
Date Posted: 21 Sep 2008 at 8:51pm
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JP, S Prarie might be on the winter list. I'm up for an Puyallup adventure, too.
------------- "Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." ~Howard Thurman |
Posted By: huckin harms
Date Posted: 22 Sep 2008 at 12:13am
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YO! Here's one for the list ... Clendinning. SIk rivr, witn out of control scenery. Where else can you paddle rapids running straight outta a lake with ice floating around? Would say more, but just wouldn't do the run justice.
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Posted By: jP
Date Posted: 23 Sep 2008 at 9:07pm
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AWESOME!! Glad to see 'yall adding stuff to "the List" !! And REALLY: for whatever reason, I've actually wanted to do S. Prairie for a while. I guess if there's enough agua, I'll give 'er... BTW. I have a more covert list, too. More stuff I'm curious about of the class V-ish flavor. we'll talk about those when we meet on the river somewhere... + I really need to do more homework on some of them before I go spoutin off 'bout them! And I'm into checking out the N.frk Tolt, The Raging allures me... on and on... ------------- 🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋 |
Posted By: James
Date Posted: 23 Sep 2008 at 9:27pm
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Clendin is looking sweet harms .... those glacier fingers are awesome... any river shots? J ------------- |
Posted By: jP
Date Posted: 23 Sep 2008 at 10:47pm
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No doubt.
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Posted By: jalmquist
Date Posted: 24 Sep 2008 at 8:09pm
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Re Puyallup beta...
It was Scott Matthews, Shane Wade, and I, and to avoid the permit we accessed the run via the West Side Road in the park. As it is now, the road was closed at the time, which adds some logistical fun. Somewhere back in the thread archive I noted flow calcs based on online powerhouse diversion, gauge readings, etc. Not sure if that's still around, but yell if you want more info.
Jon
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Posted By: Kiwi
Date Posted: 24 Sep 2008 at 9:18pm
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uhhh, I want more info!!!
it would be a 2 day trip?
how many miles?
and then where do you put in and take out?
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Posted By: jP
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2008 at 7:20pm
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Yep. Info is good, Jon, thank you so much for throwing it out there-- and for blazing the trail ahead of us. I'd love to run it, logistics be damned. It's not a two day trip though. Is it? If it is, well, time to start messin with my boat and packing it in my garage. ------------- 🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋 |
Posted By: jP
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2008 at 7:25pm
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BTW Mr. Harms: how was that Clendinning run you did? I saw the pics. Looks like it was really low. I mean, not necessarily low from a human scale proportion, but low in terms of the riverbed itself. Like it's a fricking huge riverbed built to convey a shit-ton 'o water. How was it at the flow you paddled it? Big & pushy? Powerfull? Boney? Scrapey? (it didn't look boney or scrapey) What's the F.P.M.? If it ain't terribly steep, how would it be with all them large boulders covered or half submerged? Sick?  Don't bogart that river!------------- 🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋 |
Posted By: jP
Date Posted: 25 Sep 2008 at 7:30pm
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Nevermind. Just saw your trip report thread-gonna go read it . Is it even possible to bogart a river? I don't think it is. That's reason # 18936236 why I love paddling whitewater. It never gets ski'd out an you never have to worry bout finding fresh lines! AMEN!!! ------------- 🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋 |
Posted By: James
Date Posted: 27 Sep 2008 at 10:30am
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Hey JP ... what about the Skykomish.. I hear there are a few fun sections up there.... is that on the list? lol I think I will head right up there today ------------- |
Posted By: jalmquist
Date Posted: 27 Sep 2008 at 5:47pm
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Puyallup again: By accessing via the West Side Road, putting on on the SF, and then taking out well downstream in Orting, it was a full two day trip. But we didn't need to deal with any permit, and we got to explore some presumably unrun stuff upstream. FYI - there's still a short (half mile?), low-walled box canyon above the confluence with the NF that we opted to portage that's likely awaiting a first descent. Levels were about 900cfs on the Electron gage, with the powerhouse online. I think diversion through the penstocks was about 400cfs, son in the main canyon we probably had 500cfs or so which felt like a moderate flow.
Jon
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Posted By: jP
Date Posted: 27 Sep 2008 at 10:02pm
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thanks again for sharing, Jon. I'm interested in checking that one out!
------------- 🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋 |
Posted By: Kiwi
Date Posted: 28 Sep 2008 at 9:47am
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so min max flow for that on the electron guage would be like 700-1200? and is there good camping?
no one comes and yells at you in the middle of the night or anything?
meth heads running around
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Posted By: Kiwi
Date Posted: 28 Sep 2008 at 10:02am
| how far upstream fom the confluence of the NF and SF did you put in? google earth isn't helping me out. |
Posted By: jalmquist
Date Posted: 29 Sep 2008 at 6:24pm
| We put in where the West Side Road crosses the SF P. Go into Mt. Rainier Nat Park on 706, past Ashford, and head north on the WS Road to the river. As noted above, the WS road was (and I believe still is) closed, so you're not driving boats much past the turn-off from 706. As for camping - we camped somewhere on a nice beach around / between the confluence with the NF and confluence with the Mowich, but I don't rememberrt exactly where. It doens't matter - once you're below the upper box canyon and approaching the NF, there's ample camp opportunities all the way to the main canyon. And the only company we had between the put-in and Electron was a bear downstream of us in the river who wasn't terribly interested in moving out of our way... With the permit fee, there's no mething around up there! |
Posted By: 14kayaking2
Date Posted: 29 Sep 2008 at 6:56pm
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well I am not going if we can't get some meth and crack. I could go fer being lunchmeat for a bear though....
------------- "We are only boaters between swims" Matty |
Posted By: jP
Date Posted: 29 Sep 2008 at 7:03pm
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Are you kidding? Them washington Bears are some of the worst meth heads anywhere!
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Posted By: Kiwi
Date Posted: 01 Oct 2008 at 9:06am
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are there any other access points just a little bit lower down? on the wa atlas it shows some logging roads that cut off around 2 miles before the west side road. or is that on champion international land? and what was the volume of the puaylip under the west side road? it comes out of the glacier like 3 miles upstream! |
Posted By: Chuck e fresh
Date Posted: 02 Oct 2008 at 6:17pm
stumped... ------------- There's no such word as can't!so stop making excuses!!!! |
Posted By: Kiwi
Date Posted: 02 Oct 2008 at 7:26pm
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how high does the champ internat. land extend? anyone have a map? sorry for asking so many questions I just really want to check this run out.
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Posted By: jalmquist
Date Posted: 02 Oct 2008 at 9:04pm
| Not sure about the logging roads a few miles before the West Side road. I'm guessing they eventually access the private timber land, but who knows. Might be worth a look, call, or quite visit to the USFS website. Volume at the put in was what you would expect - low in that it was quite high in the drainage, but fine in that the gradient was steep in that section. Mainly glacial bouldery stuff in that first section before the upper gorge. |
Posted By: Kiwi
Date Posted: 03 Oct 2008 at 8:03am
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I'll try calling them. thanks. |