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septimus prime
Big Boofer
Joined: 02 Jun 2007
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Posts: 502
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Topic: River Physics 101 Posted: 06 Jun 2014 at 4:57pm |
Off to your favorite river destination already, huh? Told the boss you are working from home this afternoon...hmmm?
Well pop quiz. Due on my desk by...whenever you feel like it(WA standards based grading in a nutshell)
You arrive at your favorite creek to discover a large tree has fallen perpendicular to the thalweg in the middle of your happy place drop. The DBH of the tree is a little more than twice the length of your Stihl chainsaw bar.
Write a procedure for cutting it out (my wife is a fisheries biologists so I feel justified. kinda like planting trees to offset the miles you drive) and be sure to include which side of the stream (up or down) you would make your first cut.
Edited by septimus prime - 06 Jun 2014 at 4:58pm
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Jon Shell Bee
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Travisimo
Big Boofer
Joined: 17 Jun 2005
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Posted: 06 Jun 2014 at 5:13pm |
drill 1" hole, about the depth of a stick of dynamite.
Insert dynamite into hole, light and run away. Fast.
Ooooorrrr... This is tough and really depends on how heavy the tree is and where it's going to fall (can it just sink until the wood boyancy takes over, or is it going to bounce... like usual)
Kind of like it's tough to tell a novice how to fall a difficult tree, it's really hard to make a "safe" procedure that works consistently that doesn't include the person taking a dunk with the saw and tree together.
I've always cut a notch on the upstream side first just like falling a tree. Then I cut from the downstream side and keep jumping off when I think I'm going swimming, pulling with a rope from downstream has always gotten the last part to snap... but it's a delicate operation and pretty much different every time. Sometimes that rope on the downstream side is good because we can get the log out of the main flow then with it...
Edited.... I failed the test first! Swapped sides!
Edited by Travisimo - 06 Jun 2014 at 9:55pm
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H2O please
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Travisimo
Big Boofer
Joined: 17 Jun 2005
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Posted: 06 Jun 2014 at 9:59pm |
Bump... In case anyone read my first post, I swapped sides... Notch up, cut down so the blade doesn't bind. The notch makes the tree bark separate and make two pieces. Once I purposely did not notch so the tree would bend enough to be free and we pulled it out, have also pulled them without cutting... Waiting for very low water is usually safest though!
Edit edit... Trees we care about tend to be really scary since the water is moving fast, or we wouldn't care. Be safe.
Edited by Travisimo - 06 Jun 2014 at 10:04pm
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H2O please
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mokelumnekid
McNasty
Joined: 09 Aug 2010
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Posted: 07 Jun 2014 at 7:42am |
My understanding is that down-trees and woody debris help create the diversity in environment that salmon and other fish need. But having said that I understand if something is manifestly dangerous it's position can be "adjusted" to benefit both
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Travisimo
Big Boofer
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Posted: 08 Jun 2014 at 12:44pm |
That does not apply to any tree I've ever heard of a kayaker removing.
I remember a fisherman swearing to me that there are steelhead at the Putin for the upper upper Cispus. When I told him of the 30 foot falls, he told me fish jump high...
Generalizations are always false.
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H2O please
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mokelumnekid
McNasty
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Posted: 08 Jun 2014 at 5:17pm |
Fair enough not so much generalizing but thinking very specifically about all the research done on the role of woody debris of all types on conditioning the fluvial environment for migrating fish. A lot of which has been done in my workplace so I'm reasonably familiar with it. It had enough street cred to motivate changes in logging practice and river management. Point being I wasn't blowing smoke or seeking to advance some vague under-powered assertion. But at the same time didn't think that throwing around references to said studies was especially interesting to anyone.
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jon!
Rock Bumper
Joined: 18 Oct 2010
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Posted: 11 Jun 2014 at 8:11am |
I like the dynamite idea. It requires less thinking and more running!
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knarfks
Viener Schnitzel
Joined: 13 Oct 2014
Location: United States
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Posted: 14 Dec 2014 at 8:37am |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=pnbJEg9r1o8
I know it doesn't have to do with log removal, but a cool fluid dynamics video that applies to the river.
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Slackkinhard
McNasty
Joined: 23 Sep 2014
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Posted: 14 Dec 2014 at 5:59pm |
she is much better than Bill Nye
Edited by Slackkinhard - 14 Dec 2014 at 6:00pm
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portagebro
Rock Bumper
Joined: 03 Jul 2011
Location: United States
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Posted: 14 Dec 2014 at 8:05pm |
Our sport first became popular after decades of riparian logging (including the splash dam approach to getting the logs out to the mills) removed most of the potential for logs in our rivers. Now after a few decades of buffer strip requirements, we can expect large wood hazards to begin recovering to natural conditions. Essential for salmon recovery, not so good for kayaking.
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