Topic: Creekboat volume vs. paddler weight questions Posted: 04 Jul 2013 at 2:46pm
So, not being much of a creeker myself, my understanding ov volume and paddler weight has different bias as more of a playboater.
I know a lot of this sort of thing is personal preference, but I'm sure there are a few general truisms some of you more experienced creekers could help with.
Basically, aside from any advice in general any of you are willing to share, when is too little/much volume achieved in general and what are the characterisics in how a boat paddles at those points?
I know with playboats lower volume is easier to throw around (easier to get thrown around as well), but less retentive and less pop. Higher volumes being the opposite, of course. I've got a few different boats where I'm in different places along the reccomended weight range, and it all makes sense.
But playing and creeking are different, and I've never hear a well thought out dissertation on what the pros. and cons. of being in certain spots along a suggested weight range for a creekboat other than needing extra volume for self support (and requisite more sluggish movement due to a fully laden boat). Conversely, with little boats, they become more responsive when weighted up.
I really don't know much about this. Does preference change depending on the type of hard WW to be run, regardless of self support and what not?
I understand a higher ratio of volume to weight keeps everything more on the surface in airerated water, but does more volume make it harder to punch holes (like retention gained being at the bottom of a playboat weight range)?
Speed?
Anything to help me better understand the nuances to be prepared for is much appreciated, thanks.
Grinch, I'm about 5'8" and weigh between 170-180. For most everything I use a boat that is 8'6" is about 86 gallons and has a bit of edge with a flat bottom. For exploratory/low volume stuff I use an 80 gal boat that's 8'1" with less edge and more of a roundy hull. I would consider a bigger boat for big-water multi day trips, but really I could probably make due quite nicely with my first boat.
Some things to consider are:
- what volume river you're going to be paddling
- how long you'll be out
- what other boats you're used to paddling
- what class is the whitewater on the trip
- is there a hike in
- what performance level do you like
For me the size of river can play a big part when choosing between a flat bottom boat (planing hull) or roundy hull (displacement hull). If I'm running low volume scrapey stuff I like less edge and a slightly smaller boat because low volume usually means small river bed, small eddies, lotsa rocks. Edges don't help on these types of runs. For more volume (600 cfs and up) I like edges because I can use that edge to carve across current, accelerate rapidly out of an eddy, across current, or simply slaloming down through moves. I feel more on top of the water's surface and that I can more precisely, with more active response from the boat, choose where I am in the current. I find a roundier hull is less pronounced, less crisp, but more stable.
That is the general trend among creek boats these days, not one or the other, but a mix between true displacement and true planing hulls. A good way to match your paddling style to a particular craft is to ask how you like to paddle and what you're going to be paddling. This is where boat size can come into play. If the paddler likes to be more aggressive and paddle really hard a lot (the idea of racing might interest you as well) then a slightly larger craft might suit "what you like to do on the water"... better. If, however, the paddler is a bit more relaxed and not chomping up the class V stairway then a slightly smaller craft in the range of what would be the proper size for the paddler would be a better option. Ultimately the paddler will find a custom fit of boat volume, length, hull type and rocker profile.
The rocker profile allows the boat to turn more or less easily as well as causing the boat to go faster or slower. You kinda get more of one than the other here, pick one. Kinda like choosing which hull more suits your style, a roundy bottom or flat hull with edges.
Is there a hike in and how long is the trip? Are you using a backpack system? How tall will you stand with that boat strapped to your back and how heavy is the thing! Some boats are weighing in pretty hefty nowadays. Are you going on a lot of multidays and need to comfortably paddle harder whitewater with a bunch more weight and momentum? How many trips like this will you do? Multidays can be hard on equipment, especially here in WA.
Where your weight (and gear's weight) falls in the suitable weight range of the boat will play a roll in the performance level of the boat. A little more edge/rocker, or less. More edge means more edges being caught by the current if you aren't a proactive paddler that likes to "stay on top of it", an edgier boat might offer more headaches than fun.
Some other important points are:
- get a boat that supports what you are working on now
- are you paddling with edges already? hmmm..
- when the boat no longer carves/performs how you like to paddle, get one that does
My learning curve hasn't quit since i started paddling, I work on skills and moves all the time. When I first started learning about creeks and creek boats I was working on certain things and really wanted edges (I came from a playboating background and was really used to the 'carvability' of crisp edges'. My point is you will work on different things throughout your paddling. Get a boat with features supporting the skills you're building. Cheers, bro!!
"Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." ~Howard Thurman
Thanks Wacko! Lotsa good stuff in there to think about.
Would you say the retention issue (as far as being high or low on reccomended weight range) is not so important with creekers due to the power of te hydraulics in harder whitewater? Or are there some similarities with playboat retention:volume?
I'd been warned before about edges in situations where the hull may need to be in contact with rocks, but are there any benefits to round hulls when contact with rocks isn't required for making the line?
I get that the last question may boil down to personal preference, but thought I'd ask. Also, any effect on boofing? Someone recently mentioned something about rocker effecting boofs, but I forget who and what they said.
My guess is that, being only 10lbs. heavier than you (about), the same boat would work well for me. I like a little edge as I'm used to them, and I'm not that interested in shallow slides as runs for progression.
It really does boil down to preference in the end, what you're comfortable with.
"Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive, and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive." ~Howard Thurman
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