Elkhorn
Printed From: ProfessorPaddle.com
Category: General
Forum Name: Whitewater Forum
Forum Discription: Open Discussion Forum. Whitewater related subjects only
URL: http://www.professorpaddle.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9153
Printed Date: 08 May 2025 at 6:14pm
Topic: Elkhorn
Posted By: SOPBOATER
Subject: Elkhorn
Date Posted: 24 Jan 2010 at 1:23am
If anybody wants to tempt me to skip school Monday for an elkhorn run. Let me know i would be into being irresponsible with a mild coaxing.
Kris
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Replies:
Posted By: water wacko
Date Posted: 24 Jan 2010 at 8:27am
Posted By: tiziak
Date Posted: 24 Jan 2010 at 7:30pm
What about all the thousands of dollars?!?!
------------- If you don't know where you are going, any road will get you there.
Daniel Patrinellis
360.434.4616
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Posted By: water wacko
Date Posted: 24 Jan 2010 at 8:02pm
Damn, I have to work.
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Posted By: SOPBOATER
Date Posted: 24 Jan 2010 at 10:11pm
Yeah I am pullin the plug on this. I really should be responsible.
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Posted By: jP
Date Posted: 25 Jan 2010 at 9:44am
Yeah, we should all be responsible. 1.) I really have work to do today as well
But maybe more to the point: 2.) I'm Physically and Mentally wiped out after a harrowing Sunday EPIC (like- a real Epic. Not some casual slang being used here.) That's the teaser. Someone else in my party can spill the beans as they feel like it. Suffice to say this is one lengthy T.R. that folks with attention spans may find to be an informative read.
Stay Tuned for more.
whoa! rising to the surface suddenly is a vague memory of a dream I must've had within the last few days: I dreamt I was soloing apparently on Elhorn. I remember in the dream I was approaching the first walled up class V in there... weird. I totally didn't remember it on a conscious level until now. That's not where my EPIC occurred, although it wasn't far from that drainage...
------------- 🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋
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Posted By: water wacko
Date Posted: 25 Jan 2010 at 10:09am
Hopefully it wasn't at the portage on Jeffy...
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Posted By: James
Date Posted: 25 Jan 2010 at 10:47am
There's a portage on Jeffy now?
Bumdilly
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Posted By: jP
Date Posted: 25 Jan 2010 at 12:12pm
well, depends on who you are and how you feel.
But no, Jeffrey woulda been a bit too low for me. This Epic Yardsale occurred on another river nearby...
At least I got most of my gear back.
------------- 🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋
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Posted By: franzhorner
Date Posted: 25 Jan 2010 at 3:03pm
I'm guessing that these brave boys went after the Upper Upper Hamma Hamma....is it true???!!!
------------- MORE RAIN PLEASE
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Posted By: SOPBOATER
Date Posted: 25 Jan 2010 at 3:04pm
The South Fork has been dealin' up some ass beatings these days.
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Posted By: tiziak
Date Posted: 25 Jan 2010 at 3:09pm
Man, I think I missed out. Snowboarding was fun, but we all know I love a god beatdown!
------------- If you don't know where you are going, any road will get you there.
Daniel Patrinellis
360.434.4616
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Posted By: tiziak
Date Posted: 25 Jan 2010 at 3:10pm
Good beatdown.
------------- If you don't know where you are going, any road will get you there.
Daniel Patrinellis
360.434.4616
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Posted By: STLboater
Date Posted: 25 Jan 2010 at 3:13pm
Dan, I think that was a sign from good
------------- Kayak Academy Whitewater Instructor
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Posted By: tiziak
Date Posted: 25 Jan 2010 at 3:26pm
hahaha! true, but whats the worst that could happen...?
------------- If you don't know where you are going, any road will get you there.
Daniel Patrinellis
360.434.4616
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Posted By: James
Date Posted: 26 Jan 2010 at 10:39am
Go over to the PPages area and read the Trip Report. (Listed as Yardsale today!) ../ppages/RTE/tripreport.asp?PPID=88&TRID=51&task=View -
It's an epic read. I just finished it. Glad everyone is ok, and it's amazing that only those few items were lost to the Skok. I have taken off that run in the Dark quite a few times so Kudo's for keeping that movement & pace. - Oh and PS I did not name dem rapids, Big Momma Jomma is the entrance rapid and that name is out of the Bennett Book or from Hoover. Speaking of Skok trips that went wrong... I have seen a few epics in there myself.
~J
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Posted By: water wacko
Date Posted: 26 Jan 2010 at 10:45am
Posted By: water wacko
Date Posted: 26 Jan 2010 at 11:05am
Wow, JP, great write-up. Nice job to all you guys for getting outta there and keeping it together. I've heard a couple stories about that run, too.
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Posted By: ThrowYaMittsUp
Date Posted: 26 Jan 2010 at 1:29pm
Word up! That was one hell of a day that I will never forget. I feel fortunate to have only lost my shoes and rope and for the fact that I can look back on this experience in a positive light and learn as much as passable from it.
------------- "Call on God, but row away from the rocks." ~H.S. Thompson
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Posted By: ThrowYaMittsUp
Date Posted: 26 Jan 2010 at 1:43pm
possibility
------------- "Call on God, but row away from the rocks." ~H.S. Thompson
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Posted By: ThrowYaMittsUp
Date Posted: 26 Jan 2010 at 1:44pm
Jeeesus!
Y'ins know what I meant.
------------- "Call on God, but row away from the rocks." ~H.S. Thompson
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Posted By: jP
Date Posted: 26 Jan 2010 at 1:46pm
YEEE HAWW!!
I finally recovered my normal energy level after waking up this morning, 36 hours or so later. Yup. I think I stated it in the T.R. "Bad Mambe Jamba" is a worthy name. I just spell it like they sing it in the song "She's a Bad Mamba Jamba" . Although my experience was more like Death Metal than funk.
Brian swam ABOVE "Bobbing For Butler"
High Five, Pernick! You and I managed to swim the majority of the whole run as members of the Newly Fomed "S. Frk Skokomish Swim Team"-- Let's disband the team now, o.k.? 
------------- 🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋
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Posted By: PowWrangler
Date Posted: 26 Jan 2010 at 2:26pm
Sounds like this run has some sticky ones on it, look forward to reading your TR when I have more time JP.
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Posted By: Kyle K
Date Posted: 26 Jan 2010 at 9:24pm
Hey JP,
Great trip report. Thanks for being so self effacing and allowing us to read through it, including the mistakes. It takes a big person to admit mistakes... Which brings me to two, one of which was mine on another trip:
But first, about your trip: Sounds like a couple of breakdown paddles would have been appropriate for this trip. As a gentle reminder to all: When paddling (harder) rivers away from roads, take a breakdown.
Now, for my "I know better than that!" moment: A few weeks ago I was on the Middle Middle... Yeah, I know, the MM. I was putting on with a strong crew of four and decided to wear my play vest instead of my rescue vest. I didn't take a throw bag either. I figured, with this crew, if anyone was going to get in trouble it was going to be me! As it turns out, another group joined us, a group that included some boaters that were just gettting their MM chops up to speed. One of them swam in the lead in drops to House Rock. She and her boat both ended up on the right side but I chased her paddle down HR 1 and ended up on the left side between the HR drops. I was in a play boat, no tether on my pfd, and no rope/webbing of any kind to make one. I tried to ferry across using both paddles and flipped. I rolled up and eddied out again on RL but realized I probably couldn't get across the current with both paddles. I got the attention of one to the boaters on RR (where swimmer and boat were) who had a tether and they ferried over and got the paddle, clipped it on and returned it to the swimmer. All ended well and no one was in that much danger but it did remind me: If you have safety gear and you know how to use it, BRING IT! From now on my play vest is for road side runs and park'n'play only.
Again, thanks for the great TR! You rock, mister!
------------- "I used to be somebody, now I'm somebody else." Bad Blake
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Posted By: jP
Date Posted: 27 Jan 2010 at 2:22pm
Thanks for your feedback, Kyle.
I posted it in all it's excruciating detail because I figured it would be entertaining, informative, or both. I also want it to stand on its own a s awork of writing. Hopefully it does.
But -yeah, I didn't even include the lack of a breakdown as an oversite, but you are right about that. I don't own onw and would love to scrape up the cash for one. It's somehting I've been thinking about but postponing. I DO have a pair of hand paddles now. And I think I'm goig to cultivate some skill with them. They are much lighter and less bulky and people run all sorts of crazy sh*t in them.
I don't care if people percieve my skill level as less than it really is in this case. I've been at this game long enough to know where I stand. My relationship with the river is what it is. Therefore I'm not insecure about admitting my faults-character flaws, or mistakes in my actions. I'm such a geek about paddling these days that I really got a lot of enjoyment out of analying the events after the fact!
It's a thin membrane we opperate in and we often don't fully understand how vulnerable it is to being ruptured until it happens. That's why seemingly trivial details like the ones I wrote about and the ones you mentioned from your trip, really could shift the nature of a trip, and flip reality upside down.
What i'm most stoked about though, was my discovery about using my whole body as a kayak, once I was reunited with my paddle. It became a really playful moment. I'm really encouraged now to become less dependent on a paddle or a boat. To be able to do without either one.
Next summer when we get warm temps and medium low flows on the Sky, I intend to do some more "boatless" kayaking, "swimming" down the Sky with a kayak paddle. Sooner, I intend to get more practice with my handpaddles-took them to the pool the other night and had a blast!
------------- 🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋
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Posted By: Fish
Date Posted: 27 Jan 2010 at 3:15pm
Swimming with a paddle, but without a boat ,sounds a lot like my early creeking days in an IK.
Our crew was arguably some of the best class V swimmers around for a good period of time. For "boatless" swimming pics one needs to look no further than Brian Blog. Being Captain of the swim team wasnt always a bad thing, it taught us that to paddle any rapid, you must first be willing to swim it. Check out the older trip reports, to see the latest in "boatless" paddle swimming technique. Ahh the good ole days
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Posted By: franzhorner
Date Posted: 27 Jan 2010 at 10:22pm
awesome TR!
breakdowns are always a good idea.
once however, we decided that since two of the three of us didn't have a paddle and the 3rd had a breakdown, that we would share the breakdown and c-1 our IK's out! 1/2 a carlisle breakdown with its big ass blade and short shaft is no way to paddle a kayak!!!
we next did a piggy back type deal where two would paddle to an eddy and get out. while one went upstream with one of the paddles and a throw bag, the other scouted and looked for a paddle downstream. the guy upstream would then paddle down to the eddy and on we would go like this. this worked much better than the c1. we eventually found my paddle and all was good....
the skok is a great place for EPIC!!!!
I would really like to get back in there someday.....
------------- MORE RAIN PLEASE
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Posted By: fiddleyak
Date Posted: 27 Jan 2010 at 11:26pm
Thanks for the writeup, that qualifies as an epic!
You're totally right that you can never have enough dry throwbag practice, and you have to be able to throw loops too. A much neglected skill. A good time to practice is when you're hanging out waiting for shuttle (or just go rafting with X!). Nothing feels sh*ttier than screwing up a rescue.
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Posted By: water wacko
Date Posted: 28 Jan 2010 at 7:11am
...especially when it's your girlfriend!!
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Posted By: fiddleyak
Date Posted: 28 Jan 2010 at 3:32pm
Throwing loops of rope...I think that it's best just to practice and figure it out. One thing that you will discover is that it won't work if the coils overlap in your palm, so you have to take care when you pull the rope in and set it in your hand. Doesn't seem to hurt to keep the lengths of rope about even. Seriously this is a skill worth practicing, that way if you miss your first toss you can pull the rope in and throw it again in a matter of seconds, as opposed to the interminable process of restuffing the bag when time counts. While were talking about rope, I'm a big fan of the small 40' bag that fits in the front pocket of the pfd.
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Posted By: ThrowYaMittsUp
Date Posted: 28 Jan 2010 at 3:49pm
This was definitely a factor in our case, as my second toss became tangled because I rushed to get the rope back. I was also in a horrible spot to throw from and slightly fatigued from rushing the flat water paddle in.
A supplemental TR will follow...
------------- "Call on God, but row away from the rocks." ~H.S. Thompson
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Posted By: water wacko
Date Posted: 28 Jan 2010 at 5:50pm
Ben, what ropes and gear did you guys have on Day Creek?
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Posted By: jP
Date Posted: 28 Jan 2010 at 7:06pm
Sweet Mr. Pernick, more accounts of the same trip would be a cool thing, since my account is obviously from my limited perspective. Slickhorn's blog continues to be a good resource to return to. i'm gonna check it out.
On Day Crk we had My spectra (50'?) rope, which now is somewhere on the Skok, and Ben's two rope bags: His 40' green bag and his 70' (?) raft guide bag.
I'm gonna replace the spectra bag. I like the way it throws and I like that it doesn't stretch as much. Yeah, it's smaller but it's usually adequate for most applications.
------------- 🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋
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Posted By: Ellingferd
Date Posted: 28 Jan 2010 at 7:47pm
using a butterfly coil instead of the regular coil works much better for the re-throw, but this takes a little practice to do quickly.
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Posted By: Kyle K
Date Posted: 28 Jan 2010 at 8:47pm
Swimming with a paddle works really well, although it can tire you out quickly, at least it tires me out. I used that technique to cross from river left to river right between the ledge below Behemoth and the next boulder garden on the UU Cispus. 'Twas one of my very first creekin' trips and don't ask where my boat was (OK, downstream around the corner. It, ummm, ran the falls without me... Go ahead, laugh while you can Kennnett!). Don't ever let anyone tell you the falls in unportagable; I did it by myself about 10 feet up the wall on river left. I traversed downstream (scary above the falls) to just above the ledge and jumped in. I wouldn't want to do it again though.
I agree, most of us don't practice throwin' the rope nearly enough, if ever, especially once it's been deployed. It's hard. This makes me realize I need to do some practice. Looks like Liquid Logic is going to market a wide mouth throw bag, with the idea that it can be stuffed in a hurry. I still think the loop method will be quicker in an emergency but I do like the idea. Check it out here...
http://shanesliquidlogic.blogspot.com/2009/12/speedloader-challenge.html - http://shanesliquidlogic.blogspot.com/2009/12/speedloader-challenge.html
------------- "I used to be somebody, now I'm somebody else." Bad Blake
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Posted By: jP
Date Posted: 01 Feb 2010 at 4:19pm
when you swam tih your paddle, though- were you're legs and lower body dangling in the current beneath you? The technique I described involves turning your whole body into a boat. I could paddle almost as well as if I was in a kayak. Plane your body on the surface, toes forward in front of you. I'm sure I'd get tired eventually, but i found it to be pretty efficient. A great thing to play around with on warmer days. I plan on running some class III rapids on the Sky this way later this summer when it's warmer. Maybe even B.D. if the h2o level is right.
------------- 🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋
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Posted By: Kyle K
Date Posted: 01 Feb 2010 at 8:33pm
I was doing the crawl, only using the paddle. Fast and powerful but tiring.
------------- "I used to be somebody, now I'm somebody else." Bad Blake
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Posted By: Kyle K
Date Posted: 01 Feb 2010 at 8:34pm
I like your idea of feet forward and planing. Cool!
------------- "I used to be somebody, now I'm somebody else." Bad Blake
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Posted By: jP
Date Posted: 02 Feb 2010 at 11:56am
yeah it's a whole different feeling - try it. I wouldn't want to run class IV that way but in open deep class III, I don't see why one really needs a boat with this technique.
The crawl approach tires you out for obvious reasons: your whole torso and lower body are dangling down in the current where it gets hung up on slower subsurface currents. Of course there are scenarios where the faster "trunk" of current is below the surface, the point being that if you are seriously attempting to use a paddle to aid your swimming, then you need to think and act DYNAMICLY to achieve what ever it is you are trying to achieve in the scenario. If the paddle is tiring you out there is no point in holding onto it. If you find this to be the case you are better off chucking it and swimming after it.Chucking it and swimming after it. Chucking it and swimming after i, ect.
I dunno- worth playing around with. Sure came in handy. I used it more in the scenario of trying to make down river progress after my boat. In heavey whitewater I'd be much less likely to mess with it. The pddle can get tangled up in different currents if you are'nt tuned in to what's happening.
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Posted By: Kyle K
Date Posted: 02 Feb 2010 at 8:48pm
Actually, when I was doing the crawl thing, my body was flat on the surface, belly down, feet kicking, just like the regular crawl. At least that's what I was trying to do. I could move really fast that way for short periods.
------------- "I used to be somebody, now I'm somebody else." Bad Blake
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Posted By: jP
Date Posted: 03 Feb 2010 at 11:22am
like I said: I employed this technique in order to make Downstream progress because I had no boat. Catching eddies wasn' t the goal.
However, when I approached the top of an obvious rapid that I'd at least want to scout (I ended up walking around it), I turned my toes upstream and ferried across to the eddy just like I was in a kayak. Really, you should try it.
I mean I'm not gonna want to volunteer to run Icicle Creek this way or anything, but if you're in reasonably flat (I.E. less steep, low gradient) class III it should work for getting about.
------------- 🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋🐋
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