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Carter_M
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  Quote Carter_M Replybullet Topic: PSE Green Power
    Posted: 20 Mar 2011 at 12:35pm
<> html,body{border:0px;} td {border:1px dotted #CCCCCC;} I am under some significant pressure at home to buy into Puget Sound Energy's Green Power Program. Theoretically, this will at $10 to $12 a month to the "average customer's bill". Despite my philosophical problems with taxing my own family for the good of the whole at the cost of roughly $100/year, I think I'm going to lose this battle from the philosophical standpoint. So now, I'm trying to use the corporate mistrust argument to prevent giving any more $ to PSE.The Green Power Program says that is gets it power from wind (61%), biomass (28%), solar (1%), and "LOW-IMPACT HYDRO(10%). As a kayaker and river lover, I bristle at the thought of supporting any more hydro power and I don't trust PSE to decide what is actually "Low-impact". Thoughts?
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Jed Hawkes
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  Quote Jed Hawkes Replybullet Posted: 20 Mar 2011 at 3:16pm
The most difficult part about this is finding proper information regarding the exact policies that make up Green Power Programs or other conservation efforts like Wild Olympics. The information provided paints a pretty picture, but so do the Monsanto, International Monetary Fund, and World Bank websites, and none of those operations are really working in the peoples best interests.

So basically I have no advice other than confirming your "corporate mistrust". I say either way you lose in this argument. Maybe to win the philosophical argument you should offer to concede something that would help diminish your environmental impact as a compromise.

Also don't forget Biomass burning and the impacts that has.
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James
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  Quote James Replybullet Posted: 21 Mar 2011 at 9:36am
I am so Sick of this Green Crap. It is just another bucket of non-sense that businesses pitch our way to sell us crap. I am serious too. Every Green Initiative I have seen in the business world stems from either marketing or profitability.

Starbucks started turning all the little sleeves for cups Green as part of the marketing campaign. Oh wait same exact cardboard sleeve that used to be un-colored and now were going to color them all green, because that shows were green. So were going to use ink, printing & power and a bunch of resources because were green now, the stinking cup holders were more green back when they were brown.

New company policy, don't print your emails if you don't need to because we are going green, well actually we found out that the cut down on paper was a great savings so were going green and very interested in pitching that.

I have a test for all you. Start listening to the words on radio, tv or any other ad. Your going to hear stuff like, Your interest is our Interest, or We are everywhere you are ... etc.. Really start paying attention and you will quickly see that most of the things that are pitched at you these days are either completely lies or totally without any basis for truth. I also hate to say this but it was not always like this, I have a 1908 Sears Robuck Catalog and some other 1890-1910 publications and the ads are very very different in terms of verbiage. I also don't think it is because of language and grammar changes, I personally think that if businesses tried to pull stuff like what we see today back then folks would read or hear it and question what they were being told, then make a choice. We tend to make a choice and then if it turns out the wrong way we start to question it....
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  Quote dave Replybullet Posted: 21 Mar 2011 at 2:30pm
PSE needs to pay me an extra 10-15$ per month because I am so good at conserving power!!!! They actually sent me a thank you letter for being in the top 10 neighbors that use the least amount of resources!!!!
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  Quote Wiggins Replybullet Posted: 21 Mar 2011 at 4:01pm
I may be wrong about this but wasn't a label similar to low impact hydro used by power companies in California to get people behind the idea of lobbying for hydro power plants in BC? The term low impact hydro does not note where the low impact will be felt; by the public, or by the company trying to build the dam.
 
Here is how you win this argument Carter. Tell her "Learn your place woman." Then all you have to do is make sure that it gets spelled out in the divorce settlement that if she wants to be a part of the Green Power Program that she can't use your alimony to fund it.
 
This is a win win. You get to not fund hydro power, your wife gets to be green, and PSE gets another customer!
 
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James
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  Quote James Replybullet Posted: 21 Mar 2011 at 4:23pm
Or better yet, install a bunch of solar panels and offset your power usage by really going green, then take them with you when you move and realize a longterm investment.

In your off time play with Fresnel lens to see how much you can increase the output.
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Carter_M
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  Quote Carter_M Replybullet Posted: 22 Mar 2011 at 5:51pm
I like the bunch of solar panels idea.... but PSE has the benefit because, for only $10 a month, they can make my wife feel like a better person but the installation cost of the solar panels would cost more than $10/month on the loan repayment schedule. However, do have a friend of a friend in Bellingham that claims that they are paying the same amount after installing solar panels because their electric bill is so much lower that it makes up for the additional cost of the loan payment. Maybe I'll look into it... I do have a pretty nice south facing roof area. <> html,body{border:0px;} td {border:1px dotted #CCCCCC;}
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doggievacation
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  Quote doggievacation Replybullet Posted: 22 Mar 2011 at 8:46pm
I feel for you, Carter.  Patty was also interested doing PSE's self-taxation plan, but the mailer somehow got lost and she forgot all about it.  :)
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  Quote James Replybullet Posted: 23 Mar 2011 at 12:31pm
Originally posted by slickhorn

You want to be green, stop procreating, cause 12 billion people ain't sustainable in any sense of the word and we're on our way there ...


Hey now!!!! I just started, and I'm on a roll. Plus there are other ways of solving this problem,  I'm just saying.
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  Quote justin Replybullet Posted: 23 Mar 2011 at 2:10pm
If I were you Carter, I'd pay the extra ten dollars.  Having a happy wife is much better than a clean conscience in my opinion.
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shrek
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  Quote shrek Replybullet Posted: 25 Mar 2011 at 7:00am
Careful what you wish for.  If you'd like to live under a "china-like population management policy" where you have to get a permit to procreate, consider what else you might need goverment permission to do. 
If you really want to "go green" you need to sell your boat (made from petroleum), your paddle, your shuttle rig and every other luxury item that the capitalistic system has afforded you to own.  Then wander into the woods, join a tribe, widdle a stick house and hope the neighboring tribe doesn get the upper hand and steal it.  Oh, and dont forget to turn off your rationality and logic because if you attempt to figure out how to improve your existence you'll get right back to where you started.....living in a capitalistic society with a boat and a paddle a shuttle rig and gas money.  That sounds F-in terrible.
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  Quote jondufay Replybullet Posted: 25 Mar 2011 at 9:07am

Geez Shrek,

  Did Annie hack into your account and post that?  Sounds like it was written by a teacher....
ahh, f--- it dude, lets go boating...
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  Quote PowWrangler Replybullet Posted: 25 Mar 2011 at 9:34am

I know, complete sentences and all!

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Carter_M
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  Quote Carter_M Replybullet Posted: 25 Mar 2011 at 9:35am
I would have chosen not to breed but I think I would have had a lonely boring life in that case. Anyway, too late for me not to breed- already got two kids that are way cooler than your new boat and shuttle rig :)
Doesn't resource consumption fit into the "limited resources" argument somewhere? My 'little' family of four living on elk meat in the wilds of Alaska would use a lot fewer resources than my current life... Is that likely to happen... No. So bow about the green power crap?
I think I'm going to go with a slightly dishonest approach similar to John's suggestion- change my PSE account so they email me bills and my wife no longer sees their advertising!
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  Quote dave Replybullet Posted: 25 Mar 2011 at 12:04pm
Look, I got an award letter from PSE for being so conservation minded. Poor Dave Moroles has to wear a down jacket, hat and a down sleeping bag to keep warm though....
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  Quote Wiggins Replybullet Posted: 25 Mar 2011 at 4:49pm
I keep my house at 60 degrees and I still have had to pay $350 a month for heat the last couple of months. I hate propane!
 
Kyle
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