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franzhorner
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  Quote franzhorner Replybullet Topic: Franz Needs a Roll
    Posted: 26 Sep 2013 at 10:57am
Hi Gang,

I think it's time I learn to roll. I live near 130th and Aurora, close to the pool sessions and I'm thinking they might start up again soon...

I've been paddling a Stiletto for a long time and while I'll never give it up, I want to get in a hardshell.

I have a LL Gus to use.

If anyone out there is planning to go to pool sessions and is willing to help me, let me know.

We could come up with all kinds of trades for this help.

Thanks....

Franz
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JayB
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  Quote JayB Replybullet Posted: 26 Sep 2013 at 5:30pm
I found "EJ's Rolling and Bracing" to be super-helpful, and the folks we helped learn to roll seemed to pick it up waaaaay faster than they would have if it was just us trying to show them - like as little at 1/2 hour in some cases.

Was a big help for me when I was trying to pick up the off-side roll way back when.
-Jay
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megspk
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  Quote megspk Replybullet Posted: 26 Sep 2013 at 8:29pm
Here's a cool exercise that you can do on dry land till you get to the pool or the lake!

Check out: http://www.creativepursuits.net/kayaking.htm

This is what helped me get my first roll!

“A strong person and a waterfall always channel their own path.” -Unknown

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franzhorner
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  Quote franzhorner Replybullet Posted: 26 Sep 2013 at 8:44pm
After all these years, it feels good to be learning a new river skill. Driving a different boat will take me to new places...

Thanks for the advice and links!

See you at the pool!

Franz
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jP
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  Quote jP Replybullet Posted: 26 Sep 2013 at 8:58pm
Yeah Franz!!
You are a worthy riverman fit for any such craft you would choose to use.

Rolling is definitely a learnable skill with a little time and patience.
Let me know when you are hittin up the pool...
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Dale
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  Quote Dale Replybullet Posted: 27 Sep 2013 at 9:05am
I'll chime in with another vote for study material and study time outside of the pool. Don't stay away from the pool, just because you haven't studied, but by all means, get yourself some study material. Note: I think YouTube videos pale in comparison to store bought videos.

I learned to roll by studying "The Bombproof Roll and Beyond" by Paul Dutky and the 3 minute section on rolling in the video, "The Kayakers Edge" by Kent Ford.

Dutky's book is short and concise. It begins with outfitting and that is absolutely the way to begin. Poor outfitting can make learning to roll a struggle. I usually tell people to start reading his book from the beginning through the rolling instruction, then stop. Reading further puts too much information in your head. Save it for later.

I like the short section on rolling in "The Kayakers Edge", precisely because it's short and doesn't contain a lot of extra information. It briefly and simply demonstrates and describes several different roll techniques.

I like "The Kayak Roll" by Kent Ford slightly better, but EJ's rolling video and "Grace Under Pressure" are both excellent, though I think all 3 of these videos are a better tool for someone trying to tune up their roll or for instructors vs someone trying to learn their roll for the first time. Too much information. Know what I mean?

The one concept I think is overlooked in rolling is the idea that your body acts like a giant paddle blade. We focus way, way WAY too much on what we're doing with that tiny inadequate sliver of plastic and often completely ignore or misunderstand the force(purchase) our body has on the water. In the Sweep Roll, we tuck our body forward and to one side, then, it acts like a giant paddle as it sweeps back and to the other side. This is a huge part of what rolls the boat. When rolling, the paddle should function as a stabilizer, rather than a thruster, if you see what I mean.

Unfortunately, a paddle is the only tool in our hands and we tend to overuse when learning to roll. It's difficult to overcome. I used to teach everybody to hand roll first. This kinda helps to get the idea out of your head that the paddle is doing all the work.

I also like the videoing yourself thing. Being upside down in our boats is disorienting. Getting to see video of yourself and what you're doing can be very enlightening. I always wanted to rig the club's projector to show video on a big wall in the pool area. You could have a dedicated tech guy to run the camera and projector. Try your roll, then have tech guy play it back for you on the wall and you can watch in the comfort of your boat, then try it again.

Goggles can also help you see more of what's happening and make for quite the sporty look in the pool. :-)

YMMV
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James
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  Quote James Replybullet Posted: 27 Sep 2013 at 10:15am
Franz having done the opposite of what you did, ie starting in a hardshell and then getting into rowing rafts and the such I can echo that enjoying the river with different crafts is great and opens up your understanding and passion even further!!

I wish I could jump into the pool and help but my time these days is well... there is none, so I will just root you on from the sidelines!

My tips
1. Don't use that Gus, I think I know where it came from and it has been tainted with years of anti-rolling propaganda and experiences. It is likely that boat having been covered in Allentown dust and Asian Knot weed will never relinquish full control to it's captain.... Of course that is a joke but if the previous owner reads this he will get it...

2. There are many different ways to learn how to roll. Everyone will try to teach you a different way, I know you are open minded so that will help, try them all until one clicks and makes the most sense.

3. My personal favorite way to teach was to set up a camera and help the person see what they were doing right and wrong each time so they could feel it out....

I look forward to getting on the river with you in a hardshell.. by the time I am back out you will probably be running class 6 and kayaks will have wings for gliding down 800ft drops.

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franzhorner
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  Quote franzhorner Replybullet Posted: 27 Sep 2013 at 12:55pm
Thanks James. Is there anything about the Gus that makes it no good for learning to roll?   I think I might be able to borrow an old Java too...
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  Quote James Replybullet Posted: 28 Sep 2013 at 8:37am
Nah the gus is just fine, I was just flingin crap because I figured that was BV's boat and he needed a little tossed his way for funs sake. Get it outfitted so it fits you well and you'll be fine!
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  Quote awskitc Replybullet Posted: 30 Sep 2013 at 3:32pm
good on ya for gettin your hands on a gus.... best boat ever made. mine exploded a few years ago. man i miss that thing.
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