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tiziak
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  Quote tiziak Replybullet Posted: 01 Mar 2010 at 5:56pm
My bad.
If you don't know where you are going, any road will get you there.

Daniel Patrinellis
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jP
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  Quote jP Replybullet Posted: 01 Mar 2010 at 6:22pm
No worries.
You should be able to go in and run the bulk of the run, was his point. If portaging a pinnacle crux rapid or drop shaves off some of the overall stress, that's cool. I deliberatly use that as a strategy for myself to tune down the stress of a run.

I drove all the way to Idaho to run the N frk of the P. I'll be damned if I don't run Jacob's. So I did (my second time, second visit). Well I had to rodeo my way out of that monstrous ledge and it was not fun. So next day I ran everything but Jacob's. Just making my mind up like that allowed me to relax more and enjoy the rest of the run.

I did it in The Chelan gorge, too. I was the first to run Entrance Exam in 10 years. I had to race Brad to the top to make sure he didn't run it first. Yes his balls are bigger than mine, but I knew If I watched him run it first, he'd screw it up, make it look ugly, and then I'd want to portage with my tail between my legs. So I ran it, got stuck in the hole at the bottom, but got out quickly-(It was STICKIER than a Porcupine covered in fresh Aquaseal surfing Rodeo Hole). When Brad ran it he got stuck way worse, for much longer. I would have swam out if I missed my early opportunity to get out and took the hole ride he did. But the next day the flow was higher, so I walked it. I'd already come to do what I wanted to do.
We talked about that, though, and there are so few drops in The Chelan Gorge that if you walk more than one (not counting the VI "Pinnacle"), you are seriously widdling the run down.

Another factor to consider: Who is leading you down? Who do you really want to lead you down? Chances are they are veteran paddlers, and/or vets of the run in question. Yeah they should respect your sensibilities, but you also need to respect theirs. It's a two way street. I can tell you that most class V boaters I know don't mind if you gotta portage a drop or three. But since they already may be slowing their desired pace down to show you down the run, they probably don't want to wait while you portage the entire run.

It's also worth bearing in mind that portaging takes more energy. So the more you portage, the more tired you will get. In Ernie's even scouting saps your energy, necessary though it is.

too me it all comes back to WHY I paddle: to feel an intimate connection with the river. To boat smooth, clean lines in sync with the rhythms of the river or creek. It's like sex.
Sure you can get in there, do your business, get off...
and no matter what it'll feel good. But if you tune into your partner (in this case, The River) with just a tiny bit more awareness- you'll get exponentially more out of it. She'll appreciate you more for it, too, in the long run.

No bullsh*t.  I gaurantee you'll Find The River if you put those paddle strokes in just a little bit...
Deeper
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  Quote dave Replybullet Posted: 02 Mar 2010 at 3:14pm
This thread is pretty funny, while you guys were posting yesterday, we were on the river tearing it up.
 I miss some boofs here and there and I am working on it, but if I run Robe, it will be with a full day of scouting and portaging drops just to check it out for my first time. I may not fire up the whole run for a long time, but I would love to just get in there and portage the hard stuff with someone Like Dave who has run it a lot and is willing to show us around in there. The videos remind me of how fast Clear Creek runs and it is similar in the crazy way the water runs too. Clear Creek scared me silly, but It was still fun. Clear Creek has also killed a lot of people and I mean lots...Check the past news articles on the web and you will see. But, I still got on it and gave it my best shot, that is how you learn, and you can always portage stuff on any river if you feel the need. I doesn't matter how many other creeks I run, if I am not ready to go into Robe at this point in my kayaking then I will probably never be ready. I have almost as many years on the river as you do JP.

I just need to get the boof down a little better...
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  Quote dave Replybullet Posted: 02 Mar 2010 at 3:39pm
http://southwestpaddler.com/docs/splatte8.html

A little taste of Clear Creek.

Colorado Rivers are much harder than Washington rivers and the classifications should be read as one level harder than ours. We are spoiled here with nice rivers, over there they will rip your boat to shreds and your face if your not careful. I got two black eyes over there and never had one here and also broke a boat on Clear Creek.
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  Quote Ellingferd Replybullet Posted: 02 Mar 2010 at 3:47pm
Dude, just go run it with a few people who have run it before and are willing to deal with portaging, swims, etc. I would recommend 5.1 to 5.2.

There is a trail all the way until Garbage, more or less, you could walk back on. I have seen hikers watching at faceplant so you could for sure walk out there, which is probably the most difficult rapid (of course this is arguable).It only gets easier, or more spread out, from there. Worst case scenario you run the first boof, portage to the bottom of last sunshine, and continue to evaluate whether you will run or portage the rest of the rapids. Or, you run every rapid, swim a few, get rolled some, roll back up. You know, basically kayaking.

Dont put so much thought into it, its not like someone is going to lock you in there once you drop in, just walk out on the trail if you think you are in over your head. I am all for evaluating skill level and appropriateness of runs but it sounds like you really want to run this thing, so just do it.
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  Quote dave Replybullet Posted: 02 Mar 2010 at 3:48pm
I have run everything on Clear Creek, except Rigor Mortis Rapid. It was classed a VI back in the day, but people have been running it so it is V+ now. I was in my 20's back then, but none the less was running solid V when most of you guys were in diapers, so I probably can handle a portage scout run in Robe...I ran Clear Creek for 4 months solid, two black eyes, one dislocated shoulder and one broken boat. Since then I have been very leary to run V stuff and have a lot of respect for V. That is why you guys don't see me doing a lot of V.
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water wacko
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  Quote water wacko Replybullet Posted: 02 Mar 2010 at 4:43pm
Dave, I heard you talkin about 'fun' awhile back in this thread. It doesn't have to be hard to be fun. I have fun looking at new stuff. Not the middle middle today? Sweet. Part of the fun of it is actually seeing what you run. I love nailing a new run. I dig agonizing over a new run. It's part of it. A skill to work on is reading and running harder rapids you know and blue angeling down some 4 stuff behind someone who you trust, who knows the run. It makes getting down a lot easier. Once you learn techniques like that on class IV as you become comfortable in class V you can apply the same things. It is all in the head. Hope I don't sound like I'm soap boxing, I'm on your side, Dave.
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