Wow! Is that all your time is worth, Could I rent you for a while?

I say this case has stroger legs than most because I have seen way worse get settled.

I have seen worse settle - i did not say I have settled worse. Read carefully.

It's been done before...and I wouldn't want to take credit for failures either.

Now don't take this the wrong way...I just remember you being a bit feisty on some other threads...

No No. All good fun.  Yes - fiesty - although I am rarely serious - unless we are in some sort of trouble on the river.

Well, Canada sure lets you do risky activities and they have socialized medicine.  You just might have to wait in a longer line.

Believe it or not, I am going to stay out of this one in terms of taking a position.

I will; however, forward a message a Canadian friend sent me a few days ago.  It is funny because I have been dealing with a shoulder problem and knee problem and so is he.  You can skip all the detail in the message and look at the information in bold below regarding wait times (my bold to make it clearer and of course, my removal of names).

same time...so I just got off the roller doing the IT band...man that hurts.   The shoulder is the bad news.  He thinks it is a partially ruptured biceps tendon...the long head but there are two tendons at that end.   So off to see Dr. YYY two times,  once for shoulder and once for knee...they can't do both at the same appt...go figure.   Anyway, wait times are terrible, even to get a MRI so if its surgical it won't get done till next fall




Edited by arnobarno - 13 Dec 2007 at 4:39pm

Ha, I knew that comment would get a few reactions.   For the record, I'm not saying we should switch to exactly what Canada has although I have a friend living in Victoria who has no problems with the system (although I know it has problems, every health model does and will).

I'm hardly a socialist Leif.   I'm a strong advocate of equality though.  And when our system is built so it is almost guaranteed that millions will not be able to afford or obtain through a job, decent health coverage, then I think something needs to be changed.  For christ's sake, were like the leaders of the free world n'shit.

And because I'm concerned with the lack of healthcare afforded to millions of hardworking adults and innocent children, I should leave the country??  Believe it or not there are a lot of people out there without the ability to see a doctor (just an emergency room visit charged to tax payers) since they'd have to stop their car payments, or not pay their rent, or not buy their kids adequate clothing. 

You grew up in a very privileged environment so I wouldn't really expect to you understand that anyway.

I thought a little humor was in order, but I didn't expect to be attacked on the basis of being privileged.  Really, you have no idea how I grew up, and it is probably not as you would expect.  Simply because I would not advocate another government program does not mean I do not have empathy for those in need.  Our healthcare system is a complex animal - there are problems both on the supply and demand sides of the equation, and there isn't a simple solution.  For every hardworking adult that truly cannot afford health insurance, there are several people who choose not to afford it (this is something I have extensively researched).

I do believe there is a solution, including, among other things, scaling back of existing government free health programs, the addition of a low-income insurance purchase tax credit, legislation to reduce the burden of malpractice insurance (including punitive damage caps), requirement that employers of "guest workers" (and any other class of immigrant) show proof of insurance, increased education about and deductibility of medical savings accounts, and tax breaks for companies with policies removing lower income staff from government programs.  The last issue is of particular interest.  By providing free healthcare to families below the poverty line, firms like WalMart have gotten (and thus the consumers), in effect, a subsidy from the government.  Because WalMart does not provide insurance for many of there part-time workers, the government picks up the tab.  It would be disastrous for our economy to further legislate employee rights, but we can encourage good behavior by incentivizing firms through tax breaks.  Employer mandates lead to higher unemployment, which is clearly detrimental to society.  Recent studies have suggested that Health Spending Accounts (HSAs) have allowed substantial cost reductions for small businesses and their employees alike.  High-deductible plans, coupled with a company-sponsored HSA have reduced costs for employers, and have empowered employees with a sense of consumerism and fiscal responsibility for minor medical issues.  Ultimately, when heath benefits are provided to consumers below their appropriate cost, those benefits will be oversubscribed.  When the demand exceeds the supply, one winds up having to wait a year for treatment.  This is, and always will be the fallacy of socialized medicine.

I'll leave you with this Milton Friedman quote, along with a short essay he wrote on the health care issue.

"Nobody spends somebody else's money as carefully as he spends his own. Nobody uses somebody else's resources as carefully as he uses his own. So if you want efficiency and effectiveness, if you want knowledge to be properly utilized, you have to do it through the means of private property."

http://www.heartland.org/Article.cfm?artId=12157

Steve - Glad to hear you are recovering from your injury.  I am sorry to hear about the costs of the visit.

I happen to be doing to self-employed thing right now - far more interesting that while I was at Accenture (my prior employer).  I purchase insurance direct from Regence BCBS.  I have a $3000 deductible and 70% co-insurance with a $5000 stop loss.  I pay $95 a month for this coverage.  I have a rate sheet in front of me because they just raised the rates because Washington decided that mental care coverage was compulsory.  The firm has more expensive plans with higher co-insurance, and cheaper plans with lower co-insurance.

I have found this plan to be quite reasonable, with very acceptable terms and conditions.  Steve, according to the rate card I have, a premium for someone of your age would be $306 a month.  I recognize that is expensive, but I thought I would mention, as I am quite pleased with the coverage I have received from this plan.  My last doctor visit actually cost less than it would have with my prior employer-sponsored plan.

- Leif

Just a little fyi about socialism in the US in case you were thinking you live in a purely capitalist country. The following are all socialized and have been for some time.

Edited by Kyle K - 14 Dec 2007 at 10:58am