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chuckj
Rock Bumper
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
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Posts: 47
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 Posted: 27 Sep 2008 at 11:16pm |
Mmm! The bond between the epoxy and the pink foam isn't the problem, it's accessing it. Once you start to get around the calves and feet you're pretty deep into the boat and unless you're small, which I'm not, you can only work with one arm/hand. It's not impossible but can be painfully slow and laborious. You could also just chuck a quart of acetone into the boat and wait.
What I did end up doing was a single layup of 9 oz glass then cutting out the cockpit, glass, pink foam and all, removing the pink foam(CAREFULLY!) from the cut out section then replacing it. I then put on a 5 oz layer of glass to keep this in place and finished the glassing process.
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Kiwi
McNasty
Joined: 22 Jun 2007
Location: United States
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Posts: 435
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 Posted: 28 Sep 2008 at 9:42am |
I really want to start building but I have 0 cash, I guess I need to spend some more time on the plans, but I think I'll go with a little longer 8' or so boat.
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Shape-changer
Rock Bumper
Joined: 15 May 2008
Location: United States
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Posts: 26
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 Posted: 28 Sep 2008 at 3:22pm |
Kiwi, you should buy some graph paper if you don't already have some and tape together enough pieces so that you can draw your plans to half scale or half inch = an inch. That way it will be much easier to convert to full scale later and once you have a good outline/top view and a good deck profile, parting line & rocker profile you can shape a scale model. This way you don't money on a big blank of foam your first time. Also, you will learn a lot about the process of shaping and you may decide to change the design along the way. I wouldn't go any small on the scale because it gets really hard to see the detail.
As far as the length of your boat in reference to an earlier statement about wanting make a squashtail and still be able to get some air. I think 8' may a little long; even at your height and weight you don't need to go any longer than 6'-6" maybe 6'-8" if you have really big feet. Maybe do a little research about surf board design and include that in the written part of project. I believe this help the development of your design.
Cheers-
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Kiwi
McNasty
Joined: 22 Jun 2007
Location: United States
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 Posted: 28 Sep 2008 at 9:17pm |
okay, will do. currently I'm working on test corrections for my honors bio class, I have to write 6 pages by tuesday, and it is just a blast.
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chuckj
Rock Bumper
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
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 Posted: 28 Sep 2008 at 11:12pm |
Kiwi
If you're doing a playboat then a shorter boat would do but if you're intent on a surfboat then there are a couple of things to consider and Mega gives a pretty good overview
Looking at surfboard designs, as Shapechanger suggested would help but looking at the design of waveskis would probably give you a better idea on design of a surfboat.
Boatertalk's "Surfzone" is a good place for input as there are a couple of designers and builders that lurk, including Gary.
Good luck! you're embarking on a marvellous project that will frustrate the hell out of you and keep your mind occupied for hours. You'll spend about 3 weeks building the boat but about 3 months designing it as you become aware of the tradeoffs.
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chuckj
Rock Bumper
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
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 Posted: 28 Sep 2008 at 11:28pm |
One more thing...try and get your bum into a couple of boats which may be a little difficult with your size. SurferDave down at Westport http://www.surferdave.net/index.html runs a couple of demo Mega kayaks. OlallaDave is a big fella on the peninsula who has a Megatron and if you can get hold of a fellow called Rob Casey, he has a Dick Wold Bigmachine.
Of course you're welcome to try my Alamax and the semi working surfboat I built.
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Kiwi
McNasty
Joined: 22 Jun 2007
Location: United States
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Posts: 435
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 Posted: 29 Sep 2008 at 8:44am |
that megaron looks exactly like what I was thinking. I think I'll try to steal that design. and It's just under 8 feet. thanks
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dblanchard
Super Looper
Joined: 11 May 2006
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 Posted: 29 Sep 2008 at 9:17am |
Getting the foam out of the Gecko <http://www.ptone.com/Kayak/surfboat/building/> boat was done using a drill with a wire brush. While that is faster than using the spoon on my Swiss Army knock-off, it still seems like a lot of work. Also, I'd have to shape a new blank and go through the hollowing out process again for each additional boat.
I don't need to make a bunch of boats, but I have a bunch of friends who would likely be interested to get into WW if the cost of entry were lower.
So, I'm interested to hear whether anyone has had luck, or thinks I might have some, buy first shaping a boat and putting on a single ply of glass and calling this my mold. Then spraying it with PVA (mold release) and making two "halves" (top and bottom) of a new boat, one at a time, on the mold and joining them after they are both fully cured.
I see that I would have some potential for weakness along the seam, which would be around the widest part of the top of the boat, but I think this could be mitigated by just doing a few plies for each half, then some strong seam tape, inside and out, and the rest of the external plies on top of that.
I'm actually thinking of a whitewater design and depending on the design, even half a boat may be hard to get off the mold, but I think I can design around that and even if I had to cut parts of the first two plies to get it off, those parts could be reinforced before putting on the remaining plies.
I'd use Jackson's outfitting on top of some closed cell foam build-ups for the seat and feet.
Anything I'm missing?
Thx,
D
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Chuck e fresh
Master Poster
Post Jester - Round Tres
Joined: 16 Jun 2005
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 Posted: 29 Sep 2008 at 10:00am |
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There's no such word as can't!so stop making excuses!!!!
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dblanchard
Super Looper
Joined: 11 May 2006
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 Posted: 29 Sep 2008 at 4:15pm |
Kiwi,
The graphpaper suggestion above is right on the mark. Once you have a design worked out the way you want I think scanning it and projecting it from your computer onto your foam block may be the easiest way to transfer it. Your school surely has some projectors you could get access to.
I'm thinking of starting with one of these two designs and may just do my first mold with no modifications other than a couple to make the mold easier to release. The pages have good top-down, front, back and side views that I can project onto each side of my block and trace out in magic marker. Of course, I couldn't sell any boats made with Fluid's designs, but that isn't really a goal anyhow. http://www.fluidkayaks.co.za/Whitewater_M-Nemesis.htm http://www.fluidkayaks.co.za/Whitewater_Element.htm
I'm leaning toward the Nemesis - has anyone paddled one?
Thx,
D
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Kiwi
McNasty
Joined: 22 Jun 2007
Location: United States
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 Posted: 29 Sep 2008 at 4:25pm |
yeah, my dad's a art teacher, so I already have a projector, that's a good idea.
finished with the test corrections and now am doing ap world history. but I still have to talk to the cp head to see if I can start it this year.
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dblanchard
Super Looper
Joined: 11 May 2006
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 Posted: 29 Sep 2008 at 4:33pm |
I was thinking that I could completely seal off the stern and not use float bags, but I'd miss being able stuff things back there and that led me to thinking of a hatch, but I'd want it water tight and easy to open and close with one hand.
Any ideas?
D
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Kiwi
McNasty
Joined: 22 Jun 2007
Location: United States
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 Posted: 29 Sep 2008 at 9:45pm |
hatches belong in sea kayaks, IMO.
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chuckj
Rock Bumper
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
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 Posted: 30 Sep 2008 at 8:45am |
One caveat with using a single layer as yer mould is that fiberglass distorts slightly as it cures. If you are planning on making a mould I would use more than one layer.
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rainpaddle
Paddler
Joined: 20 Aug 2007
Location: United States
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Posts: 85
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 Posted: 30 Sep 2008 at 2:58pm |
Kiwi,
At 6', 5" I'm guessing you have some pretty long legs. I have a Mega Impulse which fits my 36" inseam well. It is about 7' 8"s long and 27"s wide which floats my 230 pounds ok. The deck height is adequate at maybe 14 inches.
Gary Korb is definately the master at surf boat shaping. Take really good notes on where his bow rocker and rail configuration starts. My rails on the impulse are very sharp but due to my weight they sit under water amid and it is a little tippy until I plane.
Also, take good notes where you put your fin boxes. I like the adjustability of the Mega fin system and it is interesting to see what differences it makes to slide them up and down the track depending on conditions.
I have 2 boats and you are welcome to come over and check them out. Mega's site is www.surfkayaks.com.
Cheers,
Rob G
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rainpaddle
Paddler
Joined: 20 Aug 2007
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 Posted: 30 Sep 2008 at 3:01pm |
One more thing:
I use Jackson Happy Feet for my foot bag as it gives me a degree of flexibility if someone else is in the boat. It is also comfy.
Cheers,
Rob G
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Kiwi
McNasty
Joined: 22 Jun 2007
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 Posted: 30 Sep 2008 at 7:53pm |
I have a 36" in inseam too.
whoa!!!
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chuckj
Rock Bumper
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
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 Posted: 01 Oct 2008 at 1:50am |
Kiwi
If you can try and get into a Megatron before you decide. I'm 6'6" 205lb with a 36" inseam and size 14 feet, the Megatron felt BIG and clunky. It definitely is a big persons boat.
Something like the Scarab, which is a size down from the Megatron may work.
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Kiwi
McNasty
Joined: 22 Jun 2007
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 Posted: 01 Oct 2008 at 8:58am |
okay, I'll look around. so, are fins necessary? can you build a surf boat without them?
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chuckj
Rock Bumper
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
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 Posted: 01 Oct 2008 at 3:49pm |
You certainly can build a boat without fins but why not give yourself the option. Putting in finboxes really is pretty easy and you will be surprised at the difference they make especially in down the line drive and a s a pivot point when turning.
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Chuck e fresh
Master Poster
Post Jester - Round Tres
Joined: 16 Jun 2005
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 Posted: 01 Oct 2008 at 7:37pm |
Go with fin's, there's a reason why surfboard's have them. At least your's will be removable.
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There's no such word as can't!so stop making excuses!!!!
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Kiwi
McNasty
Joined: 22 Jun 2007
Location: United States
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 Posted: 06 Oct 2008 at 8:35pm |
well, after all of that, it turns out doing your cp as a sophomore is against the rules.
so the earliest I can start it would be the begining of the summer, june 20th.
the whole cp system is f*cked, the list of prohibited Items is 3 pages long and limits you to observing a cardbord box biodegrade.
anyway, I went surfing at westport on sunday!!!
8 ft. swells 16 sec.
even made up a new move, the waterscrew!!!
just find the biggest wave you see and lean away from it so you go into a uncontrolled tumble into the beach, as long as you end up in a sidesurf eventully you've succeded!
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jP
Rio Banditos
Diddle Fuerte Diablo !
Joined: 15 Oct 2005
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 Posted: 04 Sep 2009 at 10:54am |
AHA!! I FOUND IT!
BUMPA!
now I don't owe anyone beer or OJ! I'm bumping this thread to keep it handy and near the surface.
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rokmnky
McNasty
Joined: 18 Aug 2008
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 Posted: 04 Sep 2009 at 2:17pm |
I know this is an old thread but a quick thought for anyone looking. What if you took your foam blank and cut it into sections then put it back together with short dowels so that you can disassemble it to pull it out in pieces after the glass cures. It would definatly be alot of work but might make it so that you can use it multiple times.
Any thoughts?
Also, besides home depot is there anywhere to get large blocks of foam around here? and is there a better type of foam to use? I'm guessing the less porous the better.
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dblanchard
Super Looper
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 Posted: 04 Sep 2009 at 3:35pm |
On the contrary, I would use a rather porous foam so that shaping it goes faster. Then before I glass it, I'd coat it in wax or putty or something to keep the resin from absorbing into it.
I think shaping a plug as a whole would offer the best result, but then glass and cure the top "half" as a separate process from the bottom half and fit the two shells together as a final step. They wouldn't really be halves, as you would want to keep the edge to the widest part of the boat. This would also let you easily add hardware for mounting seats, grab loops, etc. before joining the two shells.
If you are looking at using a plug, I would also consider making prototype boats out of the cheapest glass you can find, then when you have a design dialed in the way you want it, create your "production" boat in something sturdier.
As for sources, there is/was a foam store on Roosevelt in Seattle. I've never been inside, and don't know whether it is still there, but it is worth a look.
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